Book of Enoch: Errors and Problems

[Jude1:3]

20 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

That doesn't matter.  The church fathers are not our final authority on the inspiration of Scripture.

It does matter. 

They were the writers of The Church that wrote in defense of Christianity and against heresies that were coming against The Church.

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

38 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

That doesn't matter.  The church fathers are not our final authority on the inspiration of Scripture.

Oh really!  How do you think the Canon of scripture was decided?  Who were the people involved?  If you say God, where did He stay and what proof do you have?

[Jude1:3]

These are the Quotes from Church Fathers referring to The Book of Enoch. There is another one by Origen but I'm not going to post it.

 

• Justin Marty wrote in his Second Apology

“But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and the punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they were enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that it was the angels and those demons who had been begotten by them that did these things to men, and women, and cities, and nations, which they related, ascribed them to god himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring, and to the offspring of those who were called his brothers, Neptune and Pluto, and to the children again of these their offspring. For whatever name each of the angels had given to himself and his children, by that name they called them“. 

Justin Marty Second Apology

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0127.htm

 

•Tertullian and the Book of Enoch
Tertullian, an early church father and founder of Latin Christianity, wrote a few positive things concerning the Book of Enoch. Tertulian writes as follows in his 2nd century work, On the Apparel of Women I 3:1-3.

“I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order of action to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason for rejecting it, let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather’s ‘grace in the sight of God,’ (Genesis 6:8) and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of his preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition of things made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house.
“If Noah had not had this conservative power by so short a route, there would still be this consideration to warrant our assertion of the genuineness of this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit’s inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra.
“But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that ‘every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired.’ (2 Timothy 3:16) By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that very reason, just like all the other portions nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude.” (Jude 1:14-15)

 

• Irenaeus, in his work The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 18, records a condensed retelling of Enoch 6-8. He does this without directly citing the Book of Enoch, yet the citation here is unmistakable.

“And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled.”

http://torahdrivenlife.com/articles/enoch/the-church-fathers-and-the-book-of-enoch/

 

[KiwiChristian]

1 hour ago, Jude1:3 said:

He is a Church Father. 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Tertullian.html

Can you give me the infallible list of church fathers published by the rcc?

[KiwiChristian]

47 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

It does matter. 

They were the writers of The Church that wrote in defense of Christianity and against heresies that were coming against The Church.

 

It does NOT matter because we read in the new testament of people taught by the apostles FALLING AWAY and even peter was REBUKED by paul to his face.

 

 

[Jude1:3]

11 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

It does NOT matter because we read in the new testament of people taught by the apostles FALLING AWAY and even peter was REBUKED by paul to his face.

 

 

It does matter.

• You have The Pre Christian Hebrew (Essenes) using The Book of Enoch as Scripture.

• You have Christians in The first 3 Centuries of The Church using The Book of Enoch as Scripture

• You have 4 different Church Fathers making reference to The Book of Enoch as Scripture in their writings.

• You have an Ancient Christian Church (The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church) that exists in Present Day that has Always had in their canon The Book of Enoch as Scripture.

http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jude1:3

[KiwiChristian]

5 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

It does matter.

• You have The Pre Christian Hebrew (Essenes) using The Book of Enoch as Scripture.

• You have Christians in The first 3 Centuries of The Church using The Book of Enoch as Scripture

• You have 4 different Church Fathers making reference to The Book of Enoch as Scripture in their writings.

• You have an Ancient Christian Church (The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church) that exists in Present Day that has Always had in their canon The Book of Enoch as Scripture.

http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html

So, the church "fathers" decide what is scripture?

 

Also, would of been good of you to provide quotes that back up your claims.

[Jude1:3]

2 minutes ago, KiwiChristian said:

So, the church "fathers" decide what is scripture?

 

Also, would of been good of you to provide quotes that back up your claims.

No, They are used to show that 1 Enoch was being used As Scripture.

What part specifically needs Quotes ?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Jude1:3

[Justin Adams]

Jude is correct.

And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good ? No one is good except God alone. - New American Standard Version (1995).- World English Bible. And Jhesus seide to hym, What seist thou me good ? No man is good , but God aloone.

Yeshua says no one is good saving God alone. Presumably not being good also means not capable of inerrancy.

 

Experts have difficulty deciding if the text of the early church was Aramaic or Translated into Greek. Josephus said that Aramaic was used of Jews in the first century, and none spoke or wrote Greek unless they were especially trained and schooled.

Josephus wrote: (about the common and normal language of the time - Aramaic)

"I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the elements of the Greek language, although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness; for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations, and so adorn their discourses with the smoothness of their periods; because they look upon this sort of accomplishment as common, not only to all sorts of free-men, but to as many of the servants as please to learn them. But they give him the testimony of being a wise man who is fully acquainted with our laws, and is able to interpret their meaning; on which account, as there have been many who have done their endeavors with great patience to obtain this learning, there have yet hardly been so many as two or three that have succeeded therein, who were immediately well rewarded for their pains." - Antiquities of Jews XX, XI (AD 93)

 

[KiwiChristian]

Just now, Jude1:3 said:

No, They are used to show that 1 Enoch was being used As Scripture.

What part specifically needs Quotes ?

You said certain church "fathers" thought the book of enoch was Scripture.

It is usual to post quotes to , ack yourself up.

See, the JW's say in their books that the church "fathers" denied that Jesus is God, but they DONT provide sources or references.

Again i ask you, can you show me an official, infallible list of these church "fathers" ?

 

Also, did these people live BEFORE 313AD or afterwards, please?

 

Also, i want to thank you for willing to have a polite and respectful dialog. I appreciate it, my friend.