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What is free will?


Robert William

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God wouldn't hold humans responsible for their choices, sins and actions if they didn't have a choice.

Calvinism is a Doctrine of Devils from hell and the deceived and closet occultists are the ones that promote and hold to this view.

Edited by Jude1:3
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1 hour ago, Jude1:3 said:

False.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you..... • James 4:8

 

Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.  And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.    • Jeremiah 29:12-13

 

Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.  Hebrews 3:15

 

God knows the choice we will make, but We don't know the choice we will make. There in lies the free will.

God gets all the glory for drawing us and saving us and yet we still have a choice.

 

 

 

 

Because you reject scripture this is the only answer you will get from me.

Total Depravity is the doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12), and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross.

Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Verses used in support of total depravity are as following. Please examined them to see if you think the doctrine is Biblical or not.

It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness (John 3:19), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
The unbeliever CAN respond to God. His response will be in accordance to Scripture that says that he cannot do good, is a hater of God, is full of evil, etc. Therefore, we conclude that his free will response will be to reject God, according to the limits described by Scripture itself.
How is it possible that an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), who does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), and who is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20), simply "chooses" God?
It is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26). It is God who causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44, 65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
Man Apart from God
Jer. 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
Rom. 5:10, "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
Total Depravity Verses
Gen. 6:5, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Gen. 8:21, "And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth."
Ecc. 7:29, “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Micah 7:4, "The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge. The day when you post a watchman, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven."
Verses against free will choice of sinners:
John 1:13, "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Rom. 9:16, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"the man" is singular
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

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2 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

There is another issue he is not considering here:

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; " (Matthew 25:41, NASB, emphasis mine)

If God predestined people to be saved from the beginning, then He also predestined people to burn in Hell from the beginning. Had that been the case, wouldn't the Lord have said instead in Matthew 25: "which has been prepared for the devil and his angels, and all of those I decided not to take from the beginning." ?

Since the Lord didn't say that in there, it indicates that people weren't "selected" to go to hell from the beginning. In fact, since it doesn't say it at all, then all we are left with is that God doesn't choose certain people to be saved and certain ones to be damned throughout time. And since Scripture is not broken, then any part of Scripture that speaks of "predestination" cannot mean predestined as far as salvation is concerned, or it would directly contradict this passage.

If people had been chosen from the beginning to be damned, then God would have made Hell for them from the beginning, not just for the Devil and his angels, and Jesus would ahve stated thus in Matthew 25:41. Instead, man rebelled against God, and because he chose the way of sin, he ended up with the same penalty for it that Satan would incur. Was any of this in contradiction to God's omniscience? No, of course not. But the only other option would have been the removal of free will and to control man like a robot, and prevented sin from happening...

 

..which means if Calvinism were true and God indeed hates sin, then there shouldn't be any sin or a need for a Saviour in the first place, let alone a hell!

 

So much for Calvinism...

 

As for Robert William's "Total Derpravity" defense: it is based on a bunch of verses all pulled out of context and "jigsawed" together.

This is good reasoning... there are many Scriptural statements that cause us to shrink back from the hard lined Calvinistic thought: 
First instance: 
When created in God’s image we had choice
Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This ability to choose good things did not end when God’s Spirit left us in the fall...
Genesis 3:22-24 (KJV)
[22] ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
 [23] Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
 [24] So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

             However we see a protective aspect of the God for fallen man!

Second instance:
In Calvinistic theology they are foundation in God’s complete and controlling sovereignty... which according to the eternal state I am completely at rest with but the working that out in the present I am at odds with! They say for man to choose makes God sovereignty less or negated... However the Bible clearly teaches where God keeps His Sovereignty with the ‘here and now’-
God’s working is thus
Isaiah 46:10 (KJV)
[10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

               According to Calvinism it pleased God sin & death... however
Ezekiel 33:11-12 (KJV)
[11] Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
 [12] Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth
.
                Israel Mine elect... Isa 45:4
As one can see clearly in these two instances one must draw back from the neat little package of Calvinism and be held in a tension of thought and progression... waiting upon the Lord for increase to reason with Him in this great and wonderful salvation He has offered to all... 
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The practical common sense of a child would say God expects all to repent... As it is written
Matthew 18:10-14 (KJV)
[10] Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
 [11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
                       ***
How many are lost without Jesus...all?***
 [12] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
 [13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
 [14] Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Love, Steven

 

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5 hours ago, Robert William said:

Because you reject scripture this is the only answer you will get from me.

No, I Reject doctrines of devils promoted by Masonic Tares Among The Wheat.

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3 hours ago, Jude1:3 said:

No, I Reject doctrines of devils promoted by Masonic Tares Among The Wheat.

Total Depravity is the doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12), and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross.

Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Verses used in support of total depravity are as following. Please examined them to see if you think the doctrine is Biblical or not.

It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness (John 3:19), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
The unbeliever CAN respond to God. His response will be in accordance to Scripture that says that he cannot do good, is a hater of God, is full of evil, etc. Therefore, we conclude that his free will response will be to reject God, according to the limits described by Scripture itself.
How is it possible that an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), who does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), and who is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20), simply "chooses" God?
It is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26). It is God who causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44, 65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
Man Apart from God
Jer. 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
Rom. 5:10, "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
Total Depravity Verses
Gen. 6:5, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Gen. 8:21, "And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth."
Ecc. 7:29, “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Micah 7:4, "The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge. The day when you post a watchman, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven."
Verses against free will choice of sinners:
John 1:13, "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Rom. 9:16, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"the man" is singular
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:44 PM, the watchman said:

aww carm  i post the forum there   gets rather interesting   it usually  ends up being told i am false teaching lol

If I posted there, I'd probably be called one too, maybe for different reasons.  I take the Bible as literal truth, why should there be any animosity?

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3 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

If I posted there, I'd probably be called one too, maybe for different reasons.  I take the Bible as literal truth, why should there be any animosity?

you have those in every Denomination that are Dogmatic  in the town i grew up in. in the past all the Churches use to get together at each others Church and hold services  . but they say that  soon ceased  .   many feel the Hold the only truth  and sad to say many ministers  will not attend service outside their circle of belief    

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2 hours ago, the watchman said:

you have those in every Denomination that are Dogmatic  in the town i grew up in. in the past all the Churches use to get together at each others Church and hold services  . but they say that  soon ceased  .   many feel the Hold the only truth  and sad to say many ministers  will not attend service outside their circle of belief    

we are actually instructed by God not to

Romans 16:17 (KJV)

[17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

[18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

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On 10/11/2017 at 6:00 PM, Abdicate said:

The way to the truth is to first have no opinion and ask the Author Who wrote the word of God. 1 John 2:27

...except of course for the opinion that having no opinions is the way to truth.

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