Five points of the Arminian heresy.

[Robert William]

The five points of Arminianism (from Jacobus Arminius 1559-1609) are in contrast to the five points of Calvinism. The Arminian five points are

• Human Free Will--This states that though man is fallen, he is not incapacitated by the sinful nature and can freely choose God. His will is not restricted and enslaved by his sinful nature.
• Conditional Election--God chose people for salvation based on His foreknowledge where God looks into the future to see who would respond to the gospel message.
• Universal Atonement--The position that Jesus bore the sin of everyone who ever lived.
• Resistable Grace--The teaching that the grace of God can be resisted and finally beaten so as to reject salvation in Christ.
• Fall from Grace--The Teaching that a person can fall from grace and lose his salvation.

[Justin Adams]

I certainly prefer some of these points to any (if not all) of the TULIP ones.

I am glad that I am simple enough to be able to pick the meat off the bones, and not choke on the bones.

Every theology seems to have slight errors. I guess it should be called man-ology mostly.

Someone that would dare to state his ideas are infallible must have himself as counselor.

Someone once said that that amounts to having a fool for counselor.

[Justin Adams]

My heartfelt comment is that I am (was) a father. My kids were my world in many ways - I lived for their welfare.

If one of my kids was hurt, or did the wrong thing I would feel it deeply. I am a very poor imitator of Father God, but I think I understand some of His feelings towards us. He is the Kindest, most Giving Person in the universe. He WANTS us to survive and be saved. He WANTS to help us all He can in our lives. He chose to give ALL of Himself before the foundation of the world for us.

If we put stumbling blocks in the path of other believers/would be believers, then a MILL-STONE necklace will be our lot.
God cares that much for the lost, the fallen, the failing, the hopeless; His children!

God is Good. ALL THE TIME

[Benevolent]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

The devil loves putting things as black and white and stuffing it into a controllable box. That way you don't have to think about God, or what He wants, if He's telling you to be responsible for your actions. Also, with such rigidity instead of learning to love and trust God, you start to despise His "unyielding law" and hating Him. When someone wants to slap a label on something, rip it off. If they want to stick you into a box, break out of it. With every heresy there's a grain of truth. Some quick proofs:

• "Meditation is Hindu guru junk"

Yet, God says to meditate on His word day and night, Joshua 1:8.

• "Money is the root of all evil"

Money isn't the problem, the love of money is the root of all evil, 1 Tim 6:10.

Deu 28 shows we have free will. When someone throws in the definition "without external influences" they're lying to themselves. We're influenced by things we don't even know exist. Just because we can't feel or sense x-rays doesn't mean they don't have an effect on us. Everyday we're bombarded by cell phone signals and WiFi yet we can't sense it physically, but is it doing us harm? Only God knows for now.

I was reading about some football player that had died and when they did an autopsy of his brain they saw it filled with dead cells that had died long before he did. They now believe that his violent actions off the field might have been because of his unknown condition. By everyone's account, he was an evil dude, but internally, he was influenced by not having a healthy brain.

The point is, these labeling exercises only help put people back into a box or allow for the dismissal of a truth because it's lumped in with other junk. Paul say he doesn't judge his own self because he knows he doesn't have all the facts about what influences him.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 (KJV)
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Yet, every single day, if not every single moment, we judge one another and ourselves. To say "I'm right" is judging yourself. Stick to the word of God, all of it, not "man-ology" as @Justin Adams so rightly stated, otherwise, we fall under the spell of silver-tongued devils.

Yes

[Robert William]

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

Ironically these 5 points were not penned by John Calvin but by a delegation (synod) of 84 members at the Synod of Dort in 1618-1619. Long after Calvin's dea

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

Ironically these 5 points were not penned by John Calvin but by a delegation (synod) of 84 members at the Synod of Dort in 1618-1619. Long after Calvin's death in 1564. 

These five points are to answer the Heretical Arminian five points.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

[Robert William]

4 hours ago, Yowm said:

I knew that 30 years ago, I was a Calvinist, but it is the moniker '5 Points of Calvinism' that is misleading, especially when there is good evidence that Calvin did not hold to Limited Atonement...see his commentary on 1John 2:2.

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1Jn 2:2)

 

All doesn't mean all all the time.

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Steve_S
Removed youtube link. Please only post youtube videos in the appropriate Video Forum.

[Robert William]

59 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That wasn't my point about Calvin and the 5 points attached to his name.

No, why not.

[Robert William]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Because to call it "The Five Points of Calvinism" when in all likelihood Calvin did not hold to Limited Atonement is misleading. Call it 'The Five Points of Beza" or something more honest. 

Why do you think God is obligated to save anybody^

[Robert William]

4 hours ago, Yowm said:

He entered into a new covenant with mankind, that if anyone would believe on His Son, He would save. He didn't have to, but He chose to out of His great love. 

John 3:16 NKJV
[16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

As a Pelagian, you are completely bypassing the depravity of man.

Your not making sense, nobody is able to believe.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Total Depravity is the doctrine that fallen man is completely touched by sin and that he is completely a sinner. He is not as bad as he could be, but in all areas of his being, body, soul, spirit, mind, emotions, etc., he is touched by sin. In that sense he is totally depraved. Because man is depraved, nothing good can come out of him (Rom. 3:10-12), and God must account the righteousness of Christ to him. This righteousness is obtainable only through faith in Christ and what He did on the cross.

Total depravity is generally believed by the Calvinist groups and rejected by the Arminian groups.

Verses used in support of total depravity are as following. Please examined them to see if you think the doctrine is Biblical or not.

It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness (John 3:19), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is ungodly (Rom. 5:6), dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), and a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
The unbeliever CAN respond to God. His response will be in accordance to Scripture that says that he cannot do good, is a hater of God, is full of evil, etc. Therefore, we conclude that his free will response will be to reject God, according to the limits described by Scripture itself.
How is it possible that an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), who does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), and who is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20), simply "chooses" God?
It is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26). It is God who causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44, 65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
Man Apart from God
Jer. 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil."
Rom. 5:10, "For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Rom. 8:7, "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so."
Total Depravity Verses
Gen. 6:5, "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Gen. 8:21, "And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma; and the Lord said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth."
Ecc. 7:29, “Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.”
Micah 7:4, "The best of them is like a briar, The most upright like a thorn hedge. The day when you post a watchman, Your punishment will come. Then their confusion will occur."
John 3:27, "John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given him from heaven."
Verses against free will choice of sinners:
John 1:13, "who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Rom. 9:16, "So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"the man" is singular
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."

[Robert William]

13 hours ago, Yowm said:

Because to call it "The Five Points of Calvinism" when in all likelihood Calvin did not hold to Limited Atonement is misleading. Call it 'The Five Points of Beza" or something more honest. 

I see Limited Atonement clearly in scripture.

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)

Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9)

Joh 17:9  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine...  Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28).  

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).
This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not Atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!