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9 hours ago, BlazyJon said:

And where does it say demon and idol worshipers go into the thousand year reign?

Rev 9: 18-21.   One third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur....... The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons and idols........  Nor did they repent.....

Here we have 1/3 of mankind being killed.  Who's left, the rest of mankind, Scripture says they continued to worship demons and idols. So demon and idol worship was prevalent prior to the 6th Trumpet and all of mankind was doing it.

This is why Christ must rule with a rod of iron, to Lord over the past practices of these people.  All of Israels sins and trespasses and iniquities will have been forgiven at the Second Coming, they will anoint the Most Holy as their King at that time; Thus fulfilling the six tasks of Dan. 9:24.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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On 9/22/2017 at 10:06 AM, Montana Marv said:

Rev 9: 18-21.   One third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur....... The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons and idols........  Nor did they repent.....

Here we have 1/3 of mankind being killed.  Who's left, the rest of mankind, Scripture says they continued to worship demons and idols. So demon and idol worship was prevalent prior to the 6th Trumpet and all of mankind was doing it.

This is why Christ must rule with a rod of iron, to Lord over the past practices of these people.  All of Israels sins and trespasses and iniquities will have been forgiven at the Second Coming, they will anoint the Most Holy as their King at that time; Thus fulfilling the six tasks of Dan. 9:24.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

You need to go back to the end of the fourth trumpet judgment:

Revelation 8:13
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
KJV

The Greek reveals several things: First, it was an EAGLE, not an angel, that was flying.

Second, John specifies that it was ONE eagle:

Apokalupsis Ioonnou 8:13
13 Kai eidon, kai eekousa henos aetou petomenou en mesouraneemati legotos foonee megalee Ouai ouai ouai tous katoikountas epi tees gees ek toon loipoon foonoon tees salpiggos toon trioon aggeloon toon mellontoon salpizein!
UBS Greek New Testament

13 Kai = 13 And/Also
eidon, = I-watched,
kai = and/also
eekousa = I-heard
henos = one
aetou = eagle

petomenou = flying
en = in
mesouraneemati = mid-sky
legontos = saying
foonee = with-a-voice
megalee = loud
Ouai ouai ouai = an onomatopoeia of Greek, sounding like "Why? Why? Why?" A cry of grief
tous = to-the
katoikountas = permanent-residents
epi =above/upon
tees = the
gees = land/Land [of Israel]/earth (as in "dirt" or "soil")

ek = out-of/from
toon = the
loipoon = remaining
foonoon = voices/sounds
tees = of-the
salpiggos = trumpets/shofars
toon = of-the
trioon = three
aggeloon = messengers/"angels"
toon =the-ones/those
mellontoon = about
salpizein! = to-trumpet!

If you would read it without chapter and verse divisions, you could see that this "earth" - the "LAND" - is the same "earth" that is upon which the meteorite would fall out of the sky and INTO the "earth" in Revelation 9:1-4, releasing the swarm of locusts!

Later, it was the same "earth" - the "LAND" - upon which the angel stood in Revelation 10:2-8, and later still, it is the same "earth" - the "LAND" - where the two witnesses prophesied, did miracles, were overcome by the beast, and were killed and left for dead in the city "where also our Lord was crucified" in Revelation 11:3-14. 

So, this "earth" - this "LAND" - is the Land of Israel, God's Land which was given to the children of Israel to possess forever.

Therefore, this is the limiting factor, and the "third of men" were that fraction of the occupying men who had invaded the Land of Israel, NOT all men everywhere on the planet!

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17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

If you would read it without chapter and verse divisions, you could see that this "earth" - the "LAND" - is the same "earth" that is upon which the meteorite would fall out of the sky and INTO the "earth" in Revelation 9:1-4, releasing the swarm of locusts!

Later, it was the same "earth" - the "LAND" - upon which the angel stood in Revelation 10:2-8, and later still, it is the same "earth" - the "LAND" - where the two witnesses prophesied, did miracles, were overcome by the beast, and were killed and left for dead in the city "where also our Lord was crucified" in Revelation 11:3-14. 

So, this "earth" - this "LAND" - is the Land of Israel, God's Land which was given to the children of Israel to possess forever.

Therefore, this is the limiting factor, and the "third of men" were that fraction of the occupying men who had invaded the Land of Israel, NOT all men everywhere on the planet!

Roy 

Why not go back to the 1st Trumpet - 1/3 of the earth was burned, 1/3 of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.  Is this world wide or only involving the land of Israel?  I say it is world wide.  The 2nd Trumpet - 1/3rd of the Seas turned to blood (world wide or Israel)?  3rd Trumpet - 1/3 of the rivers and springs turn bitter from wormwood. (world wide or Israel).  Then Rev 8:13 - Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels.

Then the 5th Trumpet - who do the locust like creatures, with the sting of a scorpion affect.  But only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.  Now are those affected only in the homeland of Israel, or is this world wide.

Then go to the 4th Seal where 1/4 of the earth are killed by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wide beasts of the earth. (world wide or Israel).  Or the 6th Seal where the kings of the earth, the princes, generals the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man......  Now are all these kings of the earth, the princes, generals,..,,, world wide or of Israel.

So now one needs to make a choice.  Do the S, T, and B judgments affect the whole world or just the land of Israel.

I say these judgments affect the Whole World.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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On 9/28/2017 at 9:33 PM, Montana Marv said:

Roy 

Why not go back to the 1st Trumpet - 1/3 of the earth was burned, 1/3 of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.  Is this world wide or only involving the land of Israel?  I say it is world wide.  The 2nd Trumpet - 1/3rd of the Seas turned to blood (world wide or Israel)?  3rd Trumpet - 1/3 of the rivers and springs turn bitter from wormwood. (world wide or Israel).  Then Rev 8:13 - Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels.

Then the 5th Trumpet - who do the locust like creatures, with the sting of a scorpion affect.  But only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.  Now are those affected only in the homeland of Israel, or is this world wide.

Then go to the 4th Seal where 1/4 of the earth are killed by sword, famine, and plague, and by the wide beasts of the earth. (world wide or Israel).  Or the 6th Seal where the kings of the earth, the princes, generals the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man......  Now are all these kings of the earth, the princes, generals,..,,, world wide or of Israel.

So now one needs to make a choice.  Do the S, T, and B judgments affect the whole world or just the land of Israel.

I say these judgments affect the Whole World.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Let me make this simple for you. Yochannan (John) was able to SEE what was happening with the sounding of the seven trumpets. Was he indeed able to see the whole earth to know that these disasters were happening all over the globe? OR, was he talking about all the earth that HE COULD SEE? I'm not saying that this was restricted to the Land of Israel, but maybe just all the land around him that he could witness through this vision.

That which Yochannan is describing is a series of meteorite strikes! Starting with the sixth seal judgment, we have an accurate description of what one would see with the near miss of a comet.

The sixth seal sees the herald meteorites in the sky (the stars falling to the ground). These aren't "stars" as great masses of gas continually exploding with the forces of millions of nuclear explosions as big or bigger than our own sun; these are "falling stars" or "shooting stars!" They will be what we call meteors! When a meteor falls and impacts the ground, we call it a meteorite!

Revelation 6:12-17
12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth (a solar eclipse), the full moon became like blood (a lunar eclipse), 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth (or the ground) as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14  The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island (that Yochannan could witness) was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16  calling to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" 
ESV

Beginning with a huge earthquake, I believe that a comet will pass close to the earth, and its gravitational force will cause the quake. Now, we have comets and asteroids that come dangerously close to the earth often enough, but this one, probably a comet, will not only bring the light show of a meteor shower; it will bring many "small" impacts as we pass THROUGH the tail of this comet! We should not lose sight of the fact that this will occur on the full moon. I believe that this explains both conditions of eclipses happening at the same time. Not only will the earth be obscuring the sun from the moon, providing a lunar eclipse, but the comet's head will be obscuring the sun from the earth, providing a solar eclipse at the same time! Depending on the size of the comet, that size will determine just how close it must be to the earth to obscure the whole sun!

Several things happen after that: First, the sky rolls up like a scroll; with the force of a nuclear explosion, the materials of the tail will hit the earth's atmosphere and the earth itself with such an impact that the air molecules are overheated and expand, leaving a "hole" in the atmosphere as those air molecules rush away from the greater heat of the impact sites.

Second, Yochannan told us that the mountains and islands within his sight will be removed from their GPS coordinates. They won't "disappear"; they'll just be MOVED! This is in accord with a violent earthquake.

Third, everyone will hide in whatever fallout shelter they can find.

As the seventh seal is broken, a lull in the destruction is experienced. For as long as it takes to seal those who belong to the LORD, the winds that want to rush back into the low pressure area left in the atmosphere are held at bay.

As the seven messengers begin to sound their air-raid sirens, with the first siren there comes a hail with lightning and it is mixed with blood as it falls. It falls upon a third of the earth that Yochannan can see and burns up a third of the trees, and all the green grass is consumed.

With the sounding of the second air-raid siren, a meteorite, looking like a huge mountain on fire, will crash into the sea, destroying all life in a third of that sea. This is NOT talking about all of the earth's oceans! This is talking about a local SEA, possibly the sea that Yochannan knew as that body of water that separated him from the churches to which he was sending this message. While I believe that this is a third of the Mediterranean Sea, it's also possible that this is talking about a third of the Aegean Sea! Either way, it is NOT talking about the whole globe!

When the third air-raid siren goes off, joining the other two still sounding, a third of what Yochannan can see of the day and a third of that night as well were darkened, probably when the water of that sea is forced into the atmosphere!

Then Yochannan hears an eagle flying overhead saying, "Ouai! Ouai! Ouai!" to the men and women who live on the earth below for the three air-raid sirens about to sound!

Then, there's another meteorite in the first half of chapter 9 that splits open the earth's crust revealing a shaft down to a pit that has no known bottom to it. Smoke arises from that shaft, and from the smoke these locusts issue upon the land that Yochannan can see! They are carnivorous, but without the ability to eat meat. Instead, all they can do is strike a man like a scorpion does filling him with a nerve-toxic venom. While the venom doesn't kill the victim, it also incapacitates the victim so that, even though he would ask to be killed outright for the pain he was suffering, he is immobilized to do so himself and paralyzed to ask others to kill him. For five months this goes on until the species dies of starvation! Again, this happens to the land that Yochannan can see!

In the wake of this destruction, another air-raid siren is sounded and an army in uniforms of red, blue and yellow, ride upon "horses" that have heads like lions and tails like serpents with heads. They belch out of their mouths fire and smoke and sulfur. Flamethrowers! HowStuffWorks tells us...

Quote

 

Fire is caused by a chemical reaction between two or more substances, typically oxygen in the air and some sort of fuel (gasoline, wood, or coal for example). This reaction is triggered by extreme heat, often caused by another flame or a spark. The fire's own heat is sufficient to keep the chemical reaction going as long as there is fuel to burn.

The basic idea of a flamethrower is to spread fire by launching burning fuel. The earliest flamethrowers, dating roughly from the 5th century B.C., were long tubes filled with burning solid material (such as sulfur or coal). These weapons worked in the same way as a blow-gun -- warriors just blew into one end of the tube, propelling the burning matter toward their enemies.

 

See Flamethrower in HowStuffWorks.com. Emphasis mine.

Therefore, it's possible that they were carrying three tanks color coded to the material they were carrying in that tank: Red for the fuel, such as gasoline; yellow for the molten sulfur that would be added; and blue for the oxygen added to be sure that it would burn readily. Just a thought. However this is accomplished in what Yochannan was seeing, he was witnessing a certain land that was being invaded by these enemies crossing the diverted Euphrates River!

Whatever you want to believe, Marv, please don't discount the fact that this was OBSERVED by a human being, Yochannan, who may not have been able to describe what he was seeing with laser-fine accuracy. Now, he may have been seeing more than the Land of Israel, but I believe that it was only as far as the Middle East for the most part, not the entire planet!

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Roy

So are these judgements targeting the land of Israel or the whole world. I say the whole world.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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You are correct .... the entire earth will be judged during the tribulation period

And some will turn to the Lord during the same and will be saved

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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On 9/30/2017 at 10:41 AM, Montana Marv said:

Roy

So are these judgements targeting the land of Israel or the whole world. I say the whole world.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Shalom, Montana Marv.

I just LOVE the way guys like you put your questions into statements (no question marks) made as a DICHOTOMY! Two choices, left or right, right or wrong, black or white, yes or no, never realizing that the answer could be a THIRD CHOICE!

So, you "ask" "the land of Israel" or "the whole world."

NEITHER ONE! As I said, it's ALL the LAND John could see in the vision! It's more than just the land of Israel, but it's also FAR less than the whole earth! (Which is what you mean when you say, "the whole world." You've never made a distinction between the "earth" and the "world.")

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Let me ask YOU a few questions: Can YOU see the "whole earth" from where you live? Can YOU watch the sun make its complete cycle around the earth? How often do YOU see the sun, 24 hours a day? If you live above the Arctic Circle, you could, but only in the summer!

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Posted (edited)
On 9/30/2017 at 11:22 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

You are correct .... the entire earth will be judged during the tribulation period

And some will turn to the Lord during the same and will be saved

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

"The entire earth will be judged during the tribulation period"? Who says?! I say, the whole earth will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment following the Millennium! The seals, the trumpets, and the bowls of plague are LOCAL and aimed at the unrighteous, not the "whole earth!"

Besides, you've mislabeled the time periods. We're already IN the "great tribulation," which started in the first century A.D! The seven years of Daniel 9 were SPLIT IN TWO by the pronouncement of desolation upon the children of Israel in Jerusalem. However, both halves were about offering the Kingdom - and her King - to Israel. They REJECTED the King (and therefore the Kingdom, as well) at the end of the First Advent.

They will be approached again at the Second Advent when they need Him most, and this time, they will accept their King readily and hungrily! These are the "three and a half years" that are talked about in Revelation!

The two sets of 3.5 years are like BOOKENDS to the great tribulation - the time of Jacob's Trouble. Think about all that's happened to the children of Israel over the last 2,000 years!

Edited by Retrobyter

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"Besides, you've mislabeled the time periods. We're already IN the "great tribulation," which started in the first century A.D!"

 

Hardly .... we are not in the great tribulation

This period has not come

 

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