Who me Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 Just some of the things del;evloped under the guidance of 'the church':- Long before any so–called ‘Renaissance’, Europe’s technology advanced far beyond anything achieved by the ancients, with examples like waterwheels, milling technology, camshafts, clocks and the compass. While gunpowder was invented by the Chinese they never developed the gun (so it is a misnomer to call their invention ‘gunpowder’—they only used it in fireworks); it was Europeans who developed the gun and by the early 14th century cannon guns were all over Europe. All this progress occurred before the ‘rediscovery’ of classical knowledge. By the late 13th century Europe was the world leader in technology, philosophy and science and this had come from centuries of interaction between Christianity and the ‘barbarians’ who had much more sophisticated cultures than generally acknowledged (p. 134). And the ‘Scientific Revolution’? It, like the term ‘Dark Ages’, was coined to discredit the medieval church. The notion has been used to claim that science burst forth only when weakened Christianity could no longer prevent it, and as the recovery of classical learning made it possible. Both claims are as false as those concerning Columbus and the flat earth (p. 134). Classical Greek texts were translated into Latin in the 12th century Christian universities and were known long before the ‘Renaissance’. But classical learning was not science so it did not directly produce science. Science began in the Christian universities under the influence of the devout scholastics. Copernicus was described by the infamous A.D. White as ‘a simple minded scholar’ who ‘discovered’ that the Earth revolves around the sun. More fudging. Copernicus was an eminent Christian scholar who studied at the Christian universities of Cracow, Bologna, Padua and Ferrera. He was taught the fundamentals of celestial mechanics that led to his heliocentric model. A long series of scholastic developments, including the demolition of Aristotle’s view of mechanics, made way for the modern version (via ‘impetus theory’), and it was biblical reasoning that guided the process. Copernicus was taught that the Earth rotates on its axis and his sole contribution seems to be that he put what he had been taught into mathematical terms, calculating future positions for the dates of Easter and solstices, etc. His heliocentric model was no more accurate than the existing Ptolemaic system and virtually everything else in his book was wrong. ‘The idea that a Copernican revolution in science occurred goes counter to the evidence … and is an invention of later historians’ from:- https://creation.com/the-biblical-origins-of-science-review-of-stark-for-the-glory-of-god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 36 minutes ago, Who me said: It, like the term ‘Dark Ages’, was coined to discredit the medieval church. The notion has been used to claim that science burst forth only when weakened Christianity could no longer prevent it, and as the recovery of classical learning made it possible. Both claims are as false as those concerning Columbus and the flat earth (p. 134). The medieval church does not need to be discredited - it was and is still of the world, lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, simplejeff said: The medieval church does not need to be discredited - it was and is still of the world, lost. You are missing the point. For all its faults, and they were/are many the 'church' preserved learning and promoted learning and reserch. It also strangly preserved Christianity, despite the distortions it introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Who me said: You are missing the point. For all its faults, and they were/are many the 'church' preserved learning and promoted learning and reserch. It also strangly preserved Christianity, despite the distortions it introduced. Sorry, no. This is false, deceptive information. See in Scripture what the Creator says of "learning and research" by and of men/mankind. (it is evil, opposed to Jesus, keeping and leading people away from Jesus, AS WRITTEN). I didn't miss the point. p.s. no "distortions it introduced". no. It was and is a totally false gospel system, without Christ. Edited June 11, 2019 by simplejeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, simplejeff said: Sorry, no. This is false, deceptive information. See in Scripture what the Creator says of "learning and research" by and of men/mankind. (it is evil, opposed to Jesus, keeping and leading people away from Jesus, AS WRITTEN). I didn't miss the point. p.s. no "distortions it introduced". no. It was and is a totally false gospel system, without Christ. Wow a view similar in many ways to those of the Amish, but here you are using the results of scientific research, products of engineers who use what scientists discover in practical ways. If you really mean "what the Creator says of "learning and research" by and of men/mankind. (it is evil, opposed to Jesus, keeping and leading people away from Jesus, AS WRITTEN)." then why do you use the evil products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted June 11, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 11, 2019 Why do you doubt Yahuweh's Word ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,172 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Who me said: Wow a view similar in many ways to those of the Amish, but here you are using the results of scientific research, products of engineers who use what scientists discover in practical ways. If you really mean "what the Creator says of "learning and research" by and of men/mankind. (it is evil, opposed to Jesus, keeping and leading people away from Jesus, AS WRITTEN)." then why do you use the evil products? Hi Who me, God gave people the skills and abilities to discover and make things. That does not give credence to a religious system of man. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 18 hours ago, simplejeff said: Why do you doubt Yahuweh's Word ? You are the one who is saying that scientific discovery is ungodly and should not be used, yet is using the results of scientific research. A clear case of shooting oneself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,298 Content Per Day: 1.73 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi Who me, God gave people the skills and abilities to discover and make things. That does not give credence to a religious system of man. Marilyn. Yes God has given 'Man' the intelligence to investigate creation and as one shristian scientist say, 'think Gods thoughts after him!' But. Ones world view can prevent one from useing ones intelligence to the fullest effect asa the article I quoted at the top of this page goes on to say. The great ancient civilisations made many discoveries but didn't continue to develope them because there world view hindered them in investigating creation. It is the Christian world view that encourages scientific research and explotation of discoveries. So, yes the catholic church is important in the history of science. Just as Christianity is vital to understand how and why science works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted June 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 10/5/2018 at 4:03 PM, JTC said: I recently listened to some lectures given by a Yale professor on some of this. Actually the course was on the fall of the Roman Empire but I think it's in the yrs you indicated. From what the prof said it sounds like God was more active back then than He is today. Or maybe it's just nonsense. Or is it that God doesn't seem so active here in the West because we have almost totally neglected God? We have done some very scary and dangerous things concerning God. I also realized that up until about 500 yrs ago God was the main thing on everyone's minds. Actually even 50 yrs ago my father's family never had a holiday dinner without the subjects of God and/or the church coming up. I think that was better. When I was young I didn't find history very interesting but now I regret that. I'm too old to go back to school and I can't read well anymore so I have to look for educational videos I can watch. Personally, I think God is highly active today. I just think he doesn't get the credit as overtly as he used to. My wife and I have several miracles in our life and two of them are bonefide healings. And it's amazing how many people I've met who have had similar things happen. And some argue that Dunkirk was a miracle. And the election of Trump was divine intervention. I think He is VERY active today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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