convert or disciple?

[OneLight]

Just now, Fidei Defensor said:

They arn't on the sane literal road. The disiple is on the Via del Rosa (way of suffering) and the believer on the Road of Faith. Answer this word of Christ, "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it." (Matthew 7:14). 

Yes, they both are on the road that leads to God.  Like the difference between you and I.  We both are on the same road, but not exactly at the same place in our journey.

Your question has a very simple answer.

Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.  Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus is stating that He is the way, the truth and the life; the narrow gate.  Everything else leads to destruction.  Every believer is entering through the narrow gate.  Some at the very last second of their life, some after many years of following Him.  Those who do follow Jesus have different positions in His body.  1 Corinthians 12 speaks very clearly about this.

[Robert William]

21 hours ago, Reinitin said:

What does any of that have to do with  your argument? "a convert being made by God and disciple being made by man?" Are all apostals diciples of Christ but not all diciples are apostals a true statement? because The apostal were diciples of Christ including Paul and I promise you they were not made disciples or apostals by man.

Nicodemus as a natural man did not receive what Jesus was preaching to him, that's why born again has to come first.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Robert William]

14 minutes ago, Yowm said:

If one needs to be born again to understand the Word of the Gospel, then why is one born again by the Word?

since  you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; (1Pe 1:23)

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? (Rom 10:14)
 

Of course, the word goes with the born-again miracle done by the Holy Spirit, but born again has to come first since the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness.

. 1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

[Sower]

On 9/29/2017 at 4:11 PM, Robert William said:

On 9/29/2017 at 4:07 PM, Reinitin said:

Just so I get this straight. You believe it's all God? He prepicked vessels for salvation? per picks vessels for destruction? All be fore creation? He measured out believing faith to an elect group? This elect group was drawn by God? Given faith by God? And granted grace by God for salvation. Now the mark of these elect is that they accept the 5 doctirnal points of tulip? But only by Gods devine intervention can a person accept those 5 points? So praise the Lord Jesus Christ who worked salvtion for us who have accepted the Summary of the Synod of dort? If anyone rejects the summary of the synode of dort summary they are still in the sheep gathering pen waiting to be identified by the Lord? something like that?

Spot on except the last sentence.

Please read Romans chapter eight and nine and Ephesians chapter one.

Robert, may I ask you if you can explain something to me, as I think you might know the answer. The Calvinist view of scripture concerning salvation specifically. If, as you have stated previously in your posts, you believe you are saved, and you believe you cannot become unsaved, you believe any witnessing by you of the gospel to unbelievers has no bearing whatsoever in their eternal destiny, you believe those chosen by God will be saved regardless of their own will, you believe that all those sent to hell never had any choice about that decision made by God. I could be off somewhere, but that is the gist of my understanding of Calvinism, more or less. My question is, knowing all this, what are you doing here?   

[Robert William]

18 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

Robert, may I ask you if you can explain something to me, as I think you might know the answer. The Calvinist view of scripture concerning salvation specifically. If, as you have stated previously in your posts, you believe you are saved, and you believe you cannot become unsaved, you believe any witnessing by you of the gospel to unbelievers has no bearing whatsoever in their eternal destiny, you believe those chosen by God will be saved regardless of their own will, you believe that all those sent to hell never had any choice about that decision made by God. I could be off somewhere, but that is the gist of my understanding of Calvinism, more or less. My question is, knowing all this, what are you doing here?   

The preaching of the cross to the natural man is foolishness, but to the one who is born again it's the most beautiful thing in the world, Christians are commanded to preach the gospel to ALL, we do not know who the predestined elect are, so we preach to ALL. The gospel follows someone who is regenerated it goes together and is required.

[Robert William]

21 hours ago, Yowm said:

 

So if 'born again' must come first and must also come by the word and yet the unnatural man does not receive the things of God, how do you unpack that? I see no Scriptural evidence that a person is regenerate (born again) apart from God's Word and Spirit.

The best I can gather from Scripture is that  God's Spirit regenerates through the power of the preached Gospel. God's Word creates the faith required for justification. Rom 10:14 and 1Pet  1:23

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
(Rom 10:14)
 

since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
(1Pe 1:23)
 

Yown, sorry but you've got it bassakwards, the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness.

All who are born again will embrace and love the gospel, and they will receive the free gift of eternal salvation in the Kingdom.

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Yown, sorry but you've got it bassakwards, the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness.

All who are born again will embrace and love the gospel, and they will receive the free gift of eternal salvation in the Kingdom.

 

I know you are not speaking to me but I couldnt resist.

Who teaches us the word? Would that be the Holy Spirit? If God is drawing one to his son; the natural man has taken a seat behind the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:17

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We embrace and love the gospel the more we read and study it through the leading of the Holy Sprit

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Blueyedjewel said:

I know you are not speaking to me but I couldnt resist.

Who teaches us the word? Would that be the Holy Spirit? If God is drawing one to his son; the natural man has taken a seat behind the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:17

Faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

We embrace and love the gospel the more we read and study it through the leading of the Holy Sprit

True, but you cant say that's the natural man unless it's a natural man who is being drawn, illuminated as the Holy Spirit did with Lydia, or is born again and then loves the gospel.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Robert William said:

True, but you cant say that's the natural man unless it's a natural man who is being drawn, illuminated as the Holy Spirit did with Lydia, or is born again and then loves the gospel.

Yes I can say that and I am correct. You were drawn as a natural man. You didnt do anything to be enlightened. You were drawn .You were dead in your sins and a natural man.  Loving the gospel and the gospel reading our hearts are two separate things The word is LIVING. The word reads our hearts before we love the gospel.

Many are drawn by the word of God. Consider the RC who has never delved into scripture but wants to know the truth. God saves them through his word.

Which btw, as we apply romans 10:17; we  learn that the word saves and also  continually sanctifies.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Yes I can say that and I am correct. You were drawn as a natural man. You didnt do anything to be enlightened. You were drawn .You were dead in your sins and a natural man.  Loving the gospel and the gospel reading our hearts are two separate things The word is LIVING. The word reads our hearts before we love the gospel.

Many are drawn by the word of God. Consider the RC who has never delved into scripture but wants to know the truth. God saves them through his word.

Which btw, as we apply romans 10:17; we  learn that the word saves and also  continually sanctifies.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

 

True, but for the natural man who considers the gospel to be foolishness.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.