Was Satan's fall part of God's plan?

[spiderman1917]

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians tell me that the fall of Satan was never part of God's plan...

That simply doesn't make sense. It is biblical that God knows what happens in the future. 

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to rebel against him.

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to be faithful to him.

He could just choose not to make the angels that will rebel and only make the angels that will be faithful to him.

The only other conclusion is that Satan's rebellion and fall was part of God's plan...

The question is why?

Perhaps it glorifies God more to have an enemy to triumph over ?

Edited September 29, 2017 by spiderman1917

[PrincessPeachy]

Interesting...

In all honesty I’ve never thought of this until now. After reading your post I believe it had to be a part of His plan. I don’t think he wanted to boast about his victory but rather give us a chance as humans to know and understand Him. God allowed us to have a free will and this would’ve never happened if Satan didn’t fall and Adam & Eve did not eat the apple. Any other thoughts? ?

[HAZARD]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 6:17 PM, spiderman1917 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians tell me that the fall of Satan was never part of God's plan...

That simply doesn't make sense. It is biblical that God knows what happens in the future. 

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to rebel against him.

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to be faithful to him.

He could just choose not to make the angels that will rebel and only make the angels that will be faithful to him.

The only other conclusion is that Satan's rebellion and fall was part of God's plan...

The question is why?

Perhaps it glorifies God more to have an enemy to triumph over ?

    http://www.keithhunt.com/Devlsin1.html

 

     REBELLION AND OVERTHROW
                    OF PRE-ADAMITE WORLD

                             by

                         Finis Dake
                           (1949)


FOREWORD by Keith Hunt:

On this issue of the pre-Adamite world and the rebellion of
Lucifer and one third of the angels, I am 95% in agreement
with Finis Dake. I will not attempt to re-invent the wheel,
so I will present to you 95% of Dake's study on this Biblical
topic. (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:12-14; Jer 4:23-26; Ezek 28:11-17;
                         2 Pet 3:5-6)
    
     Earth's First Sinless Career (Gen 1:1; Ezek 28:15)
    


1. THE ANTE-CHAOTIC AGE - RULE OF ANGELS

  

 

   The Ante-chaotic Age extended from the original creation of
the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the rebellion
and overthrow of the first kosmos, or social order on the Earth.
It was the dateless period between Gen.1:1 when the Earth was
finished and inhabited in the beginning and Gen.1:2 when the
Earth was first flooded, destroying all life therein. It takes in
that unknown time during which Earth was in its first perfect
state and ruled by Lucifer before he rebelled and caused the
Earth to be flooded, as in Gen. 1:2.

In Ezek.28:11-17 it is stated of Lucifer: "Thou wast perfect in
thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was
found in thee." This teaches that there was a period of
perfection and sinlessness on the Earth before its curse and
chaotic state as in Gen.1:2; so we call this period, "The
Ante-chaotic Age." During this age spirit beings ruled the Earth
and other planets, and it might be called "The Dispensation of
Angels." This administration of angels was evidently a moral or
probationary period designed to test the angels before trusting
them in an eternal. So we call it a "dispensation," which means a
moral or probationary period which God tests free moral agents
according to a fixed standard of conduct.
All spirit beings must of necessity be tested like human free
moral agents to see if they will obey God before they are trusted
with higher and eternal responsibility.
Angels were fresh from the hand of God in creation and had been
created with free wills; so they were capable of making their own
choice as to whether they wanted to obey or not. They had to
learn by the experience of being tested whether they would or
would not obey God. They had to learn obedience. They also had to
learn that God was just and holy in all His ways and that He
could and should be trusted in all things that could not be made
known to free moral agents at one time. They had to learn that
God was the Supreme Moral Governor of the universe and that all
creatures should consecrate themselves to the same end to which
God Himself was consecrated - the highest good of the universe
and all creatures therein. They had to prove themselves true to
God in order to get the rewards for obedience. They had to
earn that God's Word was true concerning penalties for
disobedience.

God's dispensational dealings were for the same purpose with the
spirit beings as they are with human beings....

If Lucifer and many other spirit beings had remained true to God,
there would have been no universal curse on the Earth and no need
for a re-creation of the atmospheric heavens and the Earth and
life on the planet Earth, as recorded in Gen.1:3-2:25....
The Bible record of the first curse on Earth and the cancellation
of the administration of angels over the Earth should make the
present administrators fear God because of their rebellion. Peter
warns the present human rebels on Earth thus: "Whose judgment now
for a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth
not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them
down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be
reserved unto judgment; and spared not the old world but saved
Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in
the flood upon the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities
of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an
overthrow, making them an example unto those that should live
ungodly; and delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy
conversation of the wicked .... The Lord knoweth how to deliver
the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the
day of judgment to be punished" (2 Pet.2:4-9). Jude also speaks
of the judgment of God upon both angels and men in the past for
rebellion (Jude 5-7).

Paul gives the example of how God cut off Israel because of
rebellion and unbelief and warned the Gentiles to "take heed lest
He spare not thee" (Rom.11:1-26). He also gives the example of
the Gentile world that did not appreciate the knowledge of God
but became vain in their imaginations and hard and stubborn in
their rebellion until God gave them over to vile affections to
destroy themselves (Rom.1:16-32). Many other examples could be
given of God's judgment upon men in various ages, as we shall
later note in our study of the ages and dispensations, but these
are sufficient here to show why God had to deal with the angelic
administrators of the Earth long before the days of Adam.

The "ways" in which Lucifer was perfect until iniquity was found
in him prove that angels were placed under certain restrictions
for the purpose of testing them. Tests are absolutely necessary
for any material thing that is made to discover if it will do
what it was designed and made for. The same thing is especially
true of free moral agents who are capable of voluntary choices
concerning moral tests....
There would be no object in creating free wills if there were not
laws for them to obey and to restrict and guide them in their
association with all other creatures in society. There would be
no need in creating creatures capable of voluntary obedience
without also stating the right and wrong ways so they can make
their choice as to which way they will go. It is written even of
the Sinless One, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience
by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he
became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey
him" (Heb.5:7-10).

It can be seen, therefore, that sinless creatures can learn
obedience to the right ways without committing sin. They can
learn by experience how to know God and walk in His ways without
going through any degree of experience in sin, for it is written
of the tested and tried Son of God, "Who did no sin, neither was
guile found in his mouth" (1 Pet.2:21-25; Heb.2:14-18; 4:14-16;
5:7-10).

Neither angels nor men would have had to sin in order to learn
obedience and be tried by moral tests; so the old theory that sin
is necessary in order for free moral agents to learn obedience is
not true. In the eternal future when men will multiply forever in
the New Earth....
If it was necessary to test human free wills and even the Son of
God, it certainly would be necessary to test the spirit beings
for the same purpose. How was God to know which of the spirit
beings would remain true and which ones would not, until they
were all tested and either proved faithful or unfaithful? They
could not have been tested without definite tests and laws to
obey. Naturally all free wills would not choose the same things
and exercise their creative free-choice powers in the same way
and in the same degree of wilful obedience or disobedience. This
has been demonstrated by free wills ever since they were created.
This certainly is clear to all present free moral agents who know
of themselves that they can make free and voluntary choice
concerning any detail of life.

It was not until Adam and Eve actually sinned that God knew the
full results of their test (Gen.3). It was not until man had
proved such a failure before the flood that God regretted having
made him (Gen.6:5-7). It was not until God came down to see the
rebellion of the post-diluvians, Sodom and Gomorrah and others,
that God took action (Gen.11:1-9; Gen.18:21).
So it is with every free moral agent of any period. Each
has to be tried and purged of any possibility of falling before
God places him in an eternal state and gives him eternal
responsibility.

In God's moral government there must be laws for all creatures,
and each creature must be assigned some particular responsibility
so that the universe will run in perfect harmony. God could not
rule free wills if each was free to do as he pleased. No
government could long endure with such a plan. This is plainly
evident to anyone who lives in any kind of society. If all were
free to do as they pleased God could not depend upon them to
carry out His eternal plan.
It is even necessary in human affairs that each person do
something and be responsible for something if anything is to be
accomplished in human activity. This is true of the smallest to
the greatest project undertaken by free wills. The greater the
project, the greater the responsibility for those who are trusted
for its completion. The greater the project, the greater the need
for many persons to be responsible for some part of the plan. How
much more true would it be in the running of the vast universe?
God is methodical in everything and has fixed laws that govern
every detail of the vast universe. Each free will is given a part
in the carrying out of the mutual plan for all concerned. God has
a plan for the life and work of each creature and has a purpose
for each material thing created.
Every planet, every sun, and every moon, and every star must run
in its own creative orbit. Each one of them must run on time, or
there would soon be nothing dependable in the planetary system.
Times and seasons would be thrown out of order, and all life on
all planets would soon be destroyed. So it is with the moral
creation. God did not make it to be chaos and ruin and each
person to be a lawless, irresponsible creature, to cause
governmental function to cease, or to do as he pleases. There
must be some order and someone to keep order. There must be one
law for all in order assure justice to all. There must be
voluntary and mutual co-operation on the part of each free will
for all to fit into and carry out the plan for the best good of
all.

Each creature must be held responsible for his own acts. He must
be rewarded for obedience or punished for disobedience, or no
government can properly function for the best good of all. If God
is to hold the respect and wilful obedience of all creatures,
then He must be fair and just to all - delivering out punishments
for sin and distributing rewards for obedience.

Government by rewards and penalties for all alike is the only
just form of government and the only one that can continue
forever. When government becomes corrupt and shows respect of
persons, and injustice to some and special favors to others,
then it ceases to carry out its purpose. This would soon lead to
rebellion and eventual overthrow. If rebels against proper and
just government were permitted to continue to openly rebel
without punishment, there would be no incentive for others to
remain true and support the government. It would soon fall. So to
be just, God is forced by circumstances to deal with rebels
against His government and put down such rebellion if He is to
continue His government for the best good of all. He is likewise
obligated to reward the faithful and preserve proper and just
government for them.

On these grounds every child of God can claim rewards and
benefits that are promised to them by God in the many promises of
Scripture.....

The Bible teaches that one-third of the angels proved untrue as
did all the subjects of the first social order on the Earth over
whom Lucifer ruled before the days of Adam. Just how many rulers
and subjects of other planets rebelled is not definitely stated,
but we do learn from Scripture that there are thrones and
kingdoms in the heavens as well as on the Earth, visible and
invisible (Col.1:15-18); that God charged some of His angels with
folly (Job 4:18); that over one-third of God's angels rebelled
with Lucifer (Rev.12:3-12; Matt.24:41); that redeemed human
beings are to judge (rule) angels (1 Cor.6:3 ); that women are
not to cut their hair but keep it long as a sign of subjection to
their own husbands so that angels will have good examples to be
in subjection to God (1 Cor.11:10); that the purpose of the
Millennial reign of Christ is to "gather in one all things in
Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in
him" (Eph.1:10), and to rid the Earth of all rebels (1 Cor.
15:24-28); that all rebels of every kind and every realm will
have to finally acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the
glory of God the Father (Phil.2:9-11); that it is Christ's work
to reconcile both the things in Heaven and the things in Earth
(Eph.1:10; Col.1:20); that Christ has already triumphed over the
rebels and is exalted above all other angelic rulers and powers
far above all heavens (Eph.1:21; 6:10-18; Col.2:14-17; 1 Pet.
3:22); that Christ is waiting now until the completion of man's
probationary test in this age before He comes down from Heaven to
put down all rebellion on Earth (Acts 3:19-21; 1 Cor.15:24-28; 2
Thess.1:7-10; Rev.19:11-20:3; Zech.14:1-21); that God is now
schooling the principalities and powers in heavenly places in His
manifold wisdom by making an example of submission by an actual
demonstration of the church (Eph.3:1-11; 1 Cor.4:9; 11:10); that
some rebel angels are now bound in Hell awaiting judgment (2
Pet.2:4; Jude 6-7); that one-third of God's angels who rebelled
are now still loose with Satan carrying on rebellion against God
(Rev.12:3-12; Dan.10:13-21; Eph.6:10-18); that they will be
defeated ... and ... and then they will be cast into the pit for
a thousand years (Rev.12:3-14; 20:1-3; Isa.24:21-23); and that
they will be liberated for a little season at the end of the
Millennium to deceive men living then on Earth, and then they
will meet their final defeat and will be cast into the lake of
fire prepared for them (Rev.20:7-10; Matt.25:41; Isa.24:21-23).

These simple Biblical facts go far in helping us understand the
outcome of the angelic administration of the Earth and the
probationary period of Earth creatures before the flood of Gen.
1:2.

What means of reconciliation God gave the spirit beings and the
first rebels on the Earth is not known, but there must have been
such means, for God has always dealt with rebels in mercy and
longsuffering. This is His nature, and it would be contrary to
His own Being to have cut them off without some means of
reconciliation and without giving them a chance to lay down their
arms of rebellion. It must be remembered that spirit beings are
immortal in body, soul, and spirit and are not subject to
physical death ... so the result of their penalty could not have
been the same as was that of man in this respect. They will,
however, be tormented ... forever ...

It must also be remembered that the Bible is not a book that
deals specifically with the administration of the angels, their
rebellion, the means of their reconciliation, if any, and all
about their former relation to God, or with the extent to which
they will suffer degrees of punishment. The Bible is a book
revealing the origin of all things, including the angels and man,
but it primarily deals with man and his rebellion and his future
in the plan of God. In the Bible, as we have seen above ....
there are hundreds of references to spirit beings, their origin,
fall, present work, future destiny, and many other things. These
things are made clear concerning spirit beings because of their
part in furthering the plan of God for man.

11. THE KINGDOM OF GOD OVER ALL - GOD ALL-IN-ALL

After the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all
things therein ... the Kingdom of God was universal, and God was
all-in-all without one creature lifting up a finger of rebellion
against Him. Everyone was willingly subject to His sovereign will
and was walking in perfect obedience to God and His moral law.
Each ruler and each of his subjects of every kingdom in the
universe was faithful in his personal responsibility and
consecrated to the highest good of being and of the universe. No
free moral agent acted from his own will in selfishness or apart
from the will of the Creator, and everything was in harmony and
perfection.

How long this condition remained is not known, and all
speculation is valueless. In the following points we shall prove
that rebellion started by the angelic ruler of the Earth who
conceived the idea and boldly attempted to carry out his plan to
dethrone God and become the supreme ruler of the universe. From
here on, the Bible reveals that the Earth has been made perfect
and inhabited two times; that, there have been two universal
rebellions on the Earth; and that the Earth has had two sinful
careers. It records two past curses on the Earth and reveals that
the Earth will be made new one more time; that righteousness
will dwell on Earth forever; and that God will become all-in-all
again, as he was before rebellion was started by Lucifer and Adam
(1 Cor.15:24-28; Rev.21-22; 2 Pet.3:13; Isa.65:17; 66:22-24).

EARTH'S FIRST SINFUL CAREER (Gen 1:2; Isa 14:1-14; Jer. 4:23-26;
Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-6)

III. MOSES' TEACHING ON THE OVERTHROW OF THE PRE-ADAMIC WORLD

In Gen.1:2 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence
before the Spirit of God began to move (brood) upon the face of
the waters which covered the Earth. The conjunction "and" is used
to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2. These
acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as
independent verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in
these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of
the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original
perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed
all life n the Earth.

The word 'was' in verse 2 is from the Hebrew 'hayah,' which is a
verb 'to become,' not the verb 'to be.' It is translated became
67 times (Gen.2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex.4:3-4; Num.12:10;
etc.), 'becamest' (1 Chron.17:22; Ezek.16:8); 'came' and 'came to
pass' 505 times (Gen.4:3; 6:1,4; 11:2,5; etc.); 'become' 66 times
(Gen.3:22; 18:18; 48:19; etc.); 'come' and 'come to pass' 131
times (Gen.4:14; 6:13; 18:20; 27:40; etc.); and many times 'be'
in the sense of 'become' (Gen.1:3,6,9,14; 3:5; etc.).

The phrase 'without form' is from the Hebrew 'tohu' which means
waste, desolation, or confusion. It is translated 'waste' (Deut.
32:10); 'without form' (Gen.1:3, Jer.4:23); 'vain' (Isa.45:18; 1
Sam.12:21); 'confusion' (Isa.24:10; 34:11; 41:29); 'empty' (Job
26:7); 'vanity' (Isa.40:17,23; 44:9; 59:4); 'nothing' (Job 6:18;
Isa.40:17); and 'wilderness' (Job 12:24; Ps.107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and
what the condition of the Earth was in Gen.1:2. God did not
originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It
is definitely stated in Isa.45:18 that God did not create the
Earth 'tohu' (vain, or desolate), yet in Gen.1:2 the Earth was
'tohu.' If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it
must have been created, inhabited, and later became desolate.
Even the English verb 'was' proves that it had to become desolate
before it could be desolate.

The Hebrew word for 'void' is 'bohu' which means empty, ruin or
void. It is translated 'void' (Gen.1:2; Jer.4:23) and emptiness
(Isa.34:11). The Hebrew phrase 'tohu va bohu' (waste and ruin, or
desolate and empty) describes the chaotic condition of the Earth
since "the beginning" and before the six days of the
reconstruction of Gen.1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a
ruin or a waste. It became so because of sin, as we shall see.

We can read Gen.1:1-2 literally thus: "In the beginning [by
periods, ages] God created the heavens and the earth. And the
earth became waste and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness
was upon the face of the deep [the flood]. And the Spirit of God
moved [brooded] upon the face of the waters."

In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages
taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth
and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the
Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the
sun, moon, and stars ....

In these two verses alone we have the facts that in the dateless
past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars,
and then the Earth; that the heavens were created before the
Earth; that the heavens, the Earth, the waters, and the darkness
were all created before the Spirit began to brood over the
waters; and that these things were already in existence before
the first of the six days, proving that they were not created in
any one of those days.
How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty
since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in
existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is
not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate and
empty is known and clearly revealed in Scripture, as we shall see
below. In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing
consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of
judgment and never of an act of creation, unless it be
Gen.1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this
is an exception. Why could not Gen.1:2 be a result of a curse,
as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth as
revealed in Gen.6-8; Ex.10:21-23; Isa.5:30; 13:10; Jer.
4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph.1:15; Joel 2:30-3:16; Matt 8:12;
9:2; 16:10).

 

PERMISSION IS GIVEN to copy, publish, email, and distribute all studies that contain my name as written and/or compiled by myself. I have NO copyright on my study articles. I trust that nothing will be changed (except for spelling and punctuation errors) without my consent. Thank you.
Please excuse and bear with me in spelling, punctuation, and other errors. I will try to correct them as time permits. May the Eternal God guide you into all truth as you live by and study His wonderful word.

[ytLiJC]

On 9/29/2017 at 11:17 AM, spiderman1917 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians tell me that the fall of Satan was never part of God's plan...

That simply doesn't make sense. It is biblical that God knows what happens in the future. 

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to rebel against him.

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to be faithful to him.

He could just choose not to make the angels that will rebel and only make the angels that will be faithful to him.

The only other conclusion is that Satan's rebellion and fall was part of God's plan...

The question is why?

Perhaps it glorifies God more to have an enemy to triumph over ?

 

the persuasion that heavenly holy angles of God fell and turned into angels of the "darkness" is a misbelief - there has never been a heavenly holy angel of God to fall and become an angel of the "darkness" (at least not in one single cycle of eternity - in principle many successive cycles of eternity must pass so that such an angel may turn out to be a great sinner, but if a soul is born in the "heaven" as a holy angel of God, then it cannot fall and become an angel of the "darkness" in the same cycle of eternity it is born as such)

angels of satan have been souls that were born as humans in this world but practiced deep occultism for a long enough time, especially the teaching known nowadays as yoga of krishna and patanjali, while satan himself is not a (be)souled being, but (unsouled) spirit, albeit intelligent like God - after all, satan is the main manifestation of the "darkness", which is the negative aspect of the divine

Blessings

[other one]

[brakelite]

On 9/29/2017 at 6:17 PM, spiderman1917 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians tell me that the fall of Satan was never part of God's plan...

That simply doesn't make sense. It is biblical that God knows what happens in the future. 

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to rebel against him.

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to be faithful to him.

He could just choose not to make the angels that will rebel and only make the angels that will be faithful to him.

The only other conclusion is that Satan's rebellion and fall was part of God's plan...

The question is why?

Perhaps it glorifies God more to have an enemy to triumph over ?

No...God did not plan for a third of those creatures He created, loved, and cherished, to spurn that love, misconstrue His motives, and think that they could set up a kingdom in opposition to His own. That my friend is patently ridiculous, despite His foreknowledge of what would happen. God created creatures, including you and me, with the capacity to love. But it is not love if we are hard-wired into some form of pre-determined program to do so. Free will and the power to choose to refuse that love must be an inherent feature of love. Otherwise love is not love. Its enforced servitude. 

[ytLiJC]

4 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

 

the persuasion that heavenly holy angles of God fell and turned into angels of the "darkness" is a misbelief - there has never been a heavenly holy angel of God to fall and become an angel of the "darkness" (at least not in one single cycle of eternity - in principle many successive cycles of eternity must pass so that such an angel may turn out to be a great sinner, but if a soul is born in the "heaven" as a holy angel of God, then it cannot fall and become an angel of the "darkness" in the same cycle of eternity it is born as such)

angels of satan have been souls that were born as humans in this world but practiced deep occultism for a long enough time, especially the teaching known nowadays as yoga of krishna and patanjali, while satan himself is not a (be)souled being, but (unsouled) spirit, albeit intelligent like God - after all, satan is the main manifestation of the "darkness", which is the negative aspect of the divine

Blessings

 

to @brakelite and others that don't get this

each of the heavenly holy angels of God had been a very righteous person in this world during previous cycles of eternity, and therefore has won the eternal reward in the "heaven", which is to be born as a holy angel in the "heaven" for many successive eternities - so there is no chance for Them to fall and become great sinners just like that (but only after countless consecutive eternities), plus, when that happens their souls will be born as humans in this world, not as holy angels in heaven - the "stars" in Revelation 12:4 are not (be)souled holy angels of God, but unsouled spirits, which are called "stones of fire/fiery stones" in Ezekiel 28:14-16

Blessings

Edited December 29, 2017 by ytLiJC

[Adstar]

God wanted to create true free willed beings.. And for them to have free will they had to have the capability to reject Gods will...

So i would say for God creating genuine free willed beings must have been the main reason for creation at all....

Yes God probably did know that satan would rebell against His will...

But that was satans free will decision.. Satan was not created with a built in design flaw which made him rebell...

Satan could have decided to follow the will of God... 

But satan decided to reject God...

So satan is responsable for his decision,, God is innocent..

[Adstar]

3 hours ago, ytLiJC said:

 

to @brakelite and others that don't get this

each of the heavenly holy angels of God had been a very righteous person in this world during previous cycles of eternity, and therefore has won the eternal reward in the "heaven", which is to be born as a holy angel in the "heaven" for many successive eternities - so there is no chance for Them to fall and become great sinners just like that (but only after countless consecutive eternities), plus, when that happens their souls will be born as humans in this world, not as holy angels in heaven - the "stars" in Revelation 12:4 are not (be)souled holy angels of God, but unsouled spirits, which are called "stones of fire/fiery stones" in Ezekiel 28:14-16

Blessings

No this is not a Christian belief.. Angels where always angels and human beings never become angels..   This teaching of yours is akin to reincarnation not Christianity

[Justin Adams]

7 hours ago, brakelite said:

Otherwise love is not love. Its enforced servitude. 

That is a good comment.

It would take a very long time to answer completely the OP because so many people are so far off track regarding YaH's High Council and His workings, plus their doctrines have been so warped that a really good answer would require way more teaching and exposition than this forum could stand.

Jim Staley of Passion for Truth ministries has some excellent teachings that I think are quite on the money. "watch?v=vfi7CCKVQJ4" (youtube)

Like Kent Hovind, the gov has put Jim in prison. Hovind is out now and Jim has to serve a few more years. They are both very well worth watching. The adversary has won two small victories here as is to be expected.