OneLight Posted March 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 27, 2018 My thorn? It wold be the memories of who I once was, the nightmares these memories create. I have peace in Him, but my past cannot be forgotten to ensure I do not repeat it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 27, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,069 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,395 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, OneLight said: My thorn? It wold be the memories of who I once was, the nightmares these memories create. I have peace in Him, but my past cannot be forgotten to ensure I do not repeat it. yep right there myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omharris Posted April 22, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 35 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 12 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/11/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/30/1953 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) The topic of Paul's thorn is one of the most grievous ones of all, as there are so many argumentative and passionate responses. I think it is important to look to scripture as much as possible, and this is a good case for doing that. The question or challenge emanates from 2 Corinthians 12:7, so let's go there. 2 Corinthians 12:7 NASB 7) Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself! a thorn - skólops; Something pointed, sharp, as a stake, the point of a hook, a thorn, prickle (Sept.: Hos_2:6). In 2Co_12:7, "a thorn in the flesh," something which causes severe pain or constant irritation. Word Study Dictionary If someone asked me, what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, I would have to start by telling them that Paul's primary audience was Jewish converts. Think about that for a moment. For years, in every town that Paul entered, he looked for a synagogue, and there is where he started preaching that grace and mercy were fulfilled in Yeshua, the Messiah. Paul told us that he excelled beyond his peers in knowledge of the law, and so, I can be confident that he knew the law and the prophets. This knowledge and understanding also tell me that he used language that his audience was familiar with, and, he was not trying to confuse them. So when he says, I have been given a thorn in the flesh, there is a direct association for his audience with Numbers 33:55 NASB 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall come about that those whom you let remain of them will become as pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides, and they will trouble you in the land in which you live.' Numbers 33:55 NASB Young's literal translation says it this way: "those whom ye let remain of them, are for pricks in your eyes, and for thorns in your sides, and they have distressed you on the land in which ye are dwelling," Consider that Paul, while under the moniker of Saul, had a hot temper. How do we know that? In Acts 7:58 Saul is holding the cloaks of those stoning Stephen; Acts 8:1 Saul was assenting to his death. and in Acts 9 We see Saul, yet breathing of threatening and slaughter to the disciples of the Lord, when God knocked him to the ground and spoke to him. We have two massive clues that tell us what might explain Paul's thorn. By his own words: "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself." The knowledge that motivated Saul to imprison and kill followers of this new way, is the background to the grace and mercy that Paul is now preaching. This is huge and there is almost no one else teaching these truths in Paul's day. "there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me -" Whether by God or by the enemy it's there. But, again, by Paul's own words, there is the acknowledgment that this is a messenger of Satan. Apply a little logic here. People often fulfill Satan's roles on this earth, but then, so do we, as we choose to act out in the flesh. We act out in the flesh when we choose to do what we want, even if it's throwing a tantrum. Now, because we have Numbers 33:55 we can understand that the thorns also applied to people. In this Nations with their gods and idolatrous ways. Can people be thorns in the flesh? Absolutely. Can Satan send people to be your thorn in the flesh? Absolutely. Ahh, but we don't get to do like Samuel the prophet did and hack the offending person to death. We can, however, draw boundaries and shut down lines of communication or access. "to keep me from exalting myself!" One might think that God may not want you to exalt yourself, and that seems logical, and yet, we see many examples of this personal exalting on the television; all in the name of godliness. But then, neither does Satan. Was Paul tortured, stoned, and left for dead? Yes. Is there a strong possibility that Paul had bad eyesight? It would seem so. But these things do not, by themselves, fulfill the parameters that Paul explains and Numbers 35:55 tell us. Edited April 22, 2018 by omharris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrobs Posted August 17, 2018 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 2 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 430 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2018 2Cor 12:7, And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. There are many ideas as to what Paul's thorn was. Some say sickness, others say blindness, speech problems, epilepsy and other scripturally unsubstantiated claims. Clearly, whatever it was, Paul's thorn in the side was from the devil to hinder him in his work, but otherwise this verse gives no specifics. It would be better to say, "I don't know" than to guess. A good question might be, has this idea of thorns come up anywhere else in scripture? If so, we may get a better idea on the nature of Paul's thorn. Fortunately, it is used in a few other places that make it plain as to what God means by a "thorn in the flesh." Num 33:55, But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell. Josh 23:13, Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out [any of] these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. Judg 2:3, Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them (people) out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. By allowing the scriptures to speak for themselves, it is evident that when God uses the word "thorn' in all of these verses, He is speaking of people, specifically people who are counter to the truth of God's word. I would say that Paul certainly had his share of people working against him and his work of speaking the truth. No guesswork or conjecture are needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted November 12, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,763 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,161 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, PromisesPromises! said: Great study, Angels4u! To me, the point is not what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, but that we all have our individual thorns, and we must choose how to live with them. We can have ourselves a series of pity parties, or we can allow God use each thorn for His glory, "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in [us] will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6). Romans 5:3-5, James 1:2-4, and 1 Peter 1:3-9 all have this hope and promise in common. As we endure our tribulations, these scriptures teach us, we gain perseverance, character, faith, patience, wisdom, stability--lacking nothing we need to be His witnesses and gain an inheritance "incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for [us], who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:4,5). We don't have to mourn our thorns; we are "kept by the power of God through faith." ? All our thorns are useful....and temporary. Hallelujah! Amen Promises, we all do have our own thorns and God will use them to make us depended on Him only and yes , thank God, they're temporary Some glorious day .... 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 The Thorn in the Flesh 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to [a]buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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