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Roger Goodell says NFL believes players should stand during national anthem


Guest shiloh357

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Guest shiloh357
2 hours ago, Butero said:

I am glad you posted this.  Reaction started coming out this morning on ESPN, where they were playing the race card, making out like white men are oppressing black players.  Rush Limbaugh was talking about the change in direction by the NFL.  It is obvious the backlash from fans have had an effect.  It will take the NFL demanding the players stand for the National Anthem to satisfy me, but if the league does that, I will consider it a major victory, and there will be no need to continue boycotting NFL products. 

Jerry Jones seemed to be leading the charge by threatening to bench players that didn't stand.  I have never been a Jones fan, but this action by the Dallas owner is something I appreciate him doing, and it makes my view of him a lot better.  Thank you Jerry Jones.  Now we wait to see if the NFL does the right thing and makes the players stand for the National Anthem going forward.    

Money talks.

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1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said:

This would be problematic to enforce, especially after the following "revelation."

"You may have seen it in comment sections across social media Sunday. The so-called 'rule' forcing all NFL players to be on the sidelines for the national anthem spread like wildfire.

"On Sunday, many social media users posted the following text:

'The specific NFL rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

'During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

'It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.'

"However, nowhere in the NFL's 2017 Official Playing Rules does the organization mention the national anthem. And pages 62 and 63 contain information on the enforcement of fouls...."

http://q13fox.com/2017/09/24/do-nfl-rules-say-players-must-stand-during-the-anthem/

 

1 hour ago, OldSchool2 said:

This would be problematic to enforce, especially after the following "revelation."

"You may have seen it in comment sections across social media Sunday. The so-called 'rule' forcing all NFL players to be on the sidelines for the national anthem spread like wildfire.

"On Sunday, many social media users posted the following text:

'The specific NFL rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

'During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

'It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.'

"However, nowhere in the NFL's 2017 Official Playing Rules does the organization mention the national anthem. And pages 62 and 63 contain information on the enforcement of fouls...."

http://q13fox.com/2017/09/24/do-nfl-rules-say-players-must-stand-during-the-anthem/

I would suggest they make a simple change in the wording.  Just change the word "should" to "shall" to make it mandatory how the players must conduct themselves.  It appears, the teams that failed to have players on the field for the National Anthem already violated the rules and need to be disciplined.  

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Guest shiloh357
10 hours ago, Butero said:

This is a huge victory for Trump.  Even those who don't like what happened at ESPN admitted that.  

Yes it was. But it was also a victory for the American people.   It shows that the "cause"  was only worthwhile so long as they didn't have to pay a price for it.   Those who push for real social change, who are actually true to their values and virtues can't be swayed by money.  

Trump has  knack for standing with the American people, and not with the rich elitists.   It also speaks against the narrative that Trump is a Democrat.  A Democrat would have sided with the NFL.

The league  gets all kinds of tax money for building and/or renovating stadiums.   Trump starts talking about evaluating the tax breaks and suddenly, combined with the tens of millions of dollars being lost in low ratings, and Goodell suddenly sees how overrated these "protests" are. 

Money has a way of talking and making the point, like nothing else can.   All they care about is the money, and when the money starts dry up, attitudes change pretty quick.  This was never a genuine protest.  A businessman like Trump knows where to hit people.

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10 hours ago, Butero said:

I would suggest they make a simple change in the wording.  Just change the word "should" to "shall" to make it mandatory how the players must conduct themselves.  It appears, the teams that failed to have players on the field for the National Anthem already violated the rules and need to be disciplined.  

How did you mange to post my comment twice and still miss this: "However, nowhere in the NFL's 2017 Official Playing Rules does the organization mention the national anthem...."?

There really are no NFL rules concerning the national anthem. And pages 62-3 deal with the enforcement of fouls, according to Fox News, however....

"The only section of the rulebook that could relate to the issue is on page 23, Article 8 'PERSONAL MESSAGES.'

'The rule states:

'Throughout the period on game-day that a player is visible to the stadium and television audience (including in pregame warm-ups, in the bench area, and during postgame interviews in the locker room or on the field), players are prohibited from wearing, displaying, or otherwise conveying personal messages either in writing or illustration, unless such message has been approved in advance by the League office....'"

But is a display of kneeling during the national anthem conveying a personal message?

Edited by OldSchool2
personal messages
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7 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

How did you mange to post my comment twice and still miss this: "However, nowhere in the NFL's 2017 Official Playing Rules does the organization mention the national anthem...."?

There really are no NFL rules concerning the national anthem. And pages 62-3 deal with the enforcement of fouls, according to Fox News, however....

"The only section of the rulebook that could relate to the issue is on page 23, Article 8 'PERSONAL MESSAGES.'

'The rule states:

'Throughout the period on game-day that a player is visible to the stadium and television audience (including in pregame warm-ups, in the bench area, and during postgame interviews in the locker room or on the field), players are prohibited from wearing, displaying, or otherwise conveying personal messages either in writing or illustration, unless such message has been approved in advance by the League office....'"

But is a display of kneeling during the national anthem conveying a personal message?

Of course it is conveying a personal message.  It began with a protest against mistreatment by police, even to the point of referring to them as pigs.  A message is conveyed anytime someone refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag, when they burn a flag during a protest, and when they kneel during the National Anthem.  It is an attack on America.  

Anyway, what is so hard about changing the rules?  It wouldn't be the first time rules were changed in mid season.  MLB made changes to the game during mid season over what was known as the "neighborhood play."

BTW, I noticed the double post.  I didn't feel like taking the time to remove one of them, since the quote wasn't that long.  

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3 hours ago, Butero said:

Of course it is conveying a personal message.  It began with a protest against mistreatment by police, even to the point of referring to them as pigs.  A message is conveyed anytime someone refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag, when they burn a flag during a protest, and when they kneel during the National Anthem....

It's a message, but is it a personal message, i.e., communication intended by the source to be received by a given individual or individuals?

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2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

It absolutely conveys a personal message and that personal message is contempt.  Contempt for the country.  Contempt for Veterans.  Contempt for the fans....

Isn't kneeling on TV too broad a medium for any legal definition of what constitutes a personal message?

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2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

No because they have already clearly stated what their personal message is.  Perpetuation of the Michael Brown lie.  Then, after Trump joined the conversation the personal message was clearly "Trump sucks and he hurt our feelings."

Trump had absolutely nothing to do with this supposed decision by the NFL, one way or the other, so people who are saying things like "this was a huge victory for Trump" are both premature in their praise because nothing has actually changed yet, and they are also giving praise where it is not due because if the NFL puts a halt to this practice, it will not be because of anything Trump said.  It will be because viewing/attendance of NFL games is down and revenue has fallen as a result.  The NFL cares about itself, and it cares about money.  And that is all it cares about.

I am the last one to give Trump credit for much, but this was due to him.  

The kneeling has been going on for more than a year and it was basically ignored by most.  Then Trump got involved and told people they needed to care about it.  

Both Trump and the NFL rely on the same group for support, 40 and older white guys. It seems that both the NFL and I underestimated that groups loyality to Trump

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11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

No because they have already clearly stated what their personal message is.  Perpetuation of the Michael Brown lie....

I'm not sure the NLF's version of the bogus Michael Brown protest would be legally construed to be a personal message as it wasn't directed at a particular person or persons, but anyone watching TV.

It's more like spreading a false meme on social media.

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1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Kaepernick was very explicit about exactly what he was protesting about.  That was a personal message....

It's not what the message is, but its intended audience, i.e., how can Kaepernick send a "personal" message to everyone he doesn't know?

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