Cremation

[JTC]

Recently Pat Robinson was asked about cremation. He beat around the bush a lot. Finally he said the Bible says that to burn a body is an insult. Oddly, he didn't give any scripture references. I know that in the OT they discuss the bones of the dead often, especially those of Jacob. But why? The Bible isn't clear on that. Does anyone know of scriptures that say to cremate is an insult? For the past 8 months I've been mostly reading the OT and I don't see where to burn a body is an insult. Does anyone know?

[GandalfTheWise]

A couple general things come to mind as possibilities.  I'm not sure how much that they would have to do with cremation though.

The first is that not being buried in the family tomb or plot seemed to be undesirable.  At times, a person under God's curse to death would have their body devoured by animals or birds rather than being buried.  This gives the impression that not having a proper burial was important to them culturally.

The second is the Josiah defiled some altars by burning human bones on them.

Also perhaps the burning of some sacrificed animals to ashes was considered something that shouldn't be done to human remains.

 

A few verses (probably not directly related to cremation) seem to associate burning with something undesirable.

Is 33:12 NIV The peoples will be burned to ashes;  like cut thornbushes they will be set ablaze.  (This might be figurative rather than literal.)

Amos 2:1-2  NIV For three sins of Moab, even for four, I will not relent, Because he burned to ashes the bones of Edom’s king, I will send fire on Moab that will consume the fortresses of Kerioth.

2 Pet 2:6  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly.

 

There might be some cultural information to be found in Bible dictionaries or other types of cultural reference materials that shed some light on this.

 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

Recently Pat Robinson was asked about cremation. He beat around the bush a lot. Finally he said the Bible says that to burn a body is an insult. Oddly, he didn't give any scripture references. I know that in the OT they discuss the bones of the dead often, especially those of Jacob. But why? The Bible isn't clear on that. Does anyone know of scriptures that say to cremate is an insult? For the past 8 months I've been mostly reading the OT and I don't see where to burn a body is an insult. Does anyone know?

The Bible is silent on cremation of the body at death. It is a personal preference. God can raise the body even if it has been cremated. Even all of those who have been buried at sea will be resurrected. There is nothing too great for God.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

14 hours ago, JTC said:

Recently Pat Robinson was asked about cremation. He beat around the bush a lot. Finally he said the Bible says that to burn a body is an insult. Oddly, he didn't give any scripture references. I know that in the OT they discuss the bones of the dead often, especially those of Jacob. But why? The Bible isn't clear on that. Does anyone know of scriptures that say to cremate is an insult? For the past 8 months I've been mostly reading the OT and I don't see where to burn a body is an insult. Does anyone know?

No, it isnt an insult. Dont listen to Pat Robertson, my friend he doesnt know the bible from a hole in the wall. I can suggest a few others....John Macarthur and Psul Washer are pretty good.

 

PS isnt Pat Robertson the one who once said he could do a 2000 pound leg press (when the world's strongest bodybuilders/powerlifters all came out and said THEY couldnt do it.

Edited October 11, 2017 by TheMatrixHasU71

[ravindran]

Bible does not say anything against cremation. It would be more of a personal preference and heavily influenced by culture. I come from India where all hindus go for cremation. But Indian Christians are completely against it simply because it is a practice of Hindus! It is driven more from culture perspective rather than being backed by Scripture. Below link gives a good read.

https://www.gotquestions.org/cremation-Bible.html

[JTC]

It's not like Pat Robinson to make such a statement and not give any scriptural references. I guess it's more his personal opinion. Pat is quite old and he often makes small mistakes. The fact is cremation is cheap compared to burial. I realized a few years ago I'm going to be cremated because I have no family or friends who even care. I don't mind. I just don't want to become dog food or a cadaver in a medical school. I always expected to be buried but I'm ok with getting cremated.  

[Neighbor]

Don't think you will know it one way or another JTC.

But plan ahead anyway.

Customs of burial have been for the benefit of the living rather than the dead. It is an aid to the grieving process to have discipline and ritual a time of grief and a time to end grief. Most cultures that I know of that have grieving disciplines seem to end them at a one year mark.

Some rituals are of pure monetary concern. It was so  for the Roman Catholic church until the past three decades. And it was financial loss to the church that changed that!

 I was raised in the culture of funerals and interment in the USA. Started as an apprentice embalmer fact even started before that  at 17 when I was too young to become part of the State licensing process. Later I became involved in cemeteries as well as funeral homes. I designed, planned, and then lead sales of all sorts of burial and entombment and columbarium options. I considered going into the simple cremation business as the industry changed from one of service to communities into a large international corporation  set to raid endowment care funds and provide dividends and capital gains to share holders having no interest in funeral service just profitable stock holdings.

 The cost of funerals is  near criminal today  in my  opinion.  I arrange simple cremation for my own beloved members of family at a cost of about $1100 total, then arrange for family led memorial service, and scattering of the cremated remains. I do think it to be a good thing to have a place of memorialization for a beloved, but it need not be a cemetery plot at all. Just the opinion of one that spent near twenty years selling "graves" as memorial estates. We developed a beautiful place of greenery and park like setting, but today  it is different, it is all profit all the time, as one needs answer to the corporation and it's shareholders.

We do have emotion. It is part of our make up, and so  you as well as I do have to satisfy  our own sense of need as to what is proper. There is no one answer, except for most of us it is a mistake to think we can be strong and just ignore it all. Ignoring turns out to be a poor plan.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

Oh, just for the mention of it, people's emotions have also led to the design of calcination units the idea  incineration of deceased  human remains without direct flame. If that settles your nerves a bit go for a crematory that has  such processors.

[JTC]

17 yrs ago I had to make the funeral arrangements for my mother. She was Catholic and went into a Catholic cemetery. About 50 yrs before that father's family voted and they decided they were all going into an indoor cloister. It's a huge building, I think 6 floors, and there must be 100's of dead bodies in there some over 100 years. The building is full of these little flys that aren't interested in biting us living people. They must come from the dead bodies. 

When I made the arrangements I was surprised at how many boxes the body goes in. I thought it was just the coffin. Luckily my mother had a good insurance policy. But I see why you say it's all about money. It's also all based on the idea of the body coming back to life someday. But as was already pointed out, what about believers who were blown to bits by bombs, eaten by wild animals, If God can resurrect them then surely He can resurrect those who are cremated. 

I have no idea what will happen to me. Cremation is fine.

Actually, isn't the idea of the dead coming back to life a pagan idea. Isn't that why the Pharaohs had such elaborate burials. I don't know, but I think we all have many wrong ideas. The 1 idea that weaves through the entire Bible is to love each other. Be good to each other. Be kind to each other, help each other. And when we do this we are showing our love for God. I think this is most important and try to practice it, not just preach it.  

[Neighbor]

Well since you mention the subject:

Mausoleum flies, are generally not so much from human remains, as  each crypt has  a drain at the back side to remove fluids as the body dehydrates as a matter of gravity, (Unless drains get clogged) the idea is that the remains dries out and is intact, so to speak dehydrated.

The fly problem generally is one of poor custodial maintenance. There are all those tiny vases plus the pots of flowers on the terrazzo floors of especially  Roman Catholic mausoleums where  the professional widows visit each week, but want their money's worth  from their flowers. I say professional  only because  of the culture, especially Italian as well as  Slavic, where it is expected that  there is to be constant grief and mourning and candle lighting, and prayer for the dead,  etc. 

Most cemeteries prohibit artificial flowers on lawn burial sites insisting on fresh flowers, so that they can schedule removal and mowing each week. But inside, artifical flowers are preferred, because the water in vases of so called fresh cut flowers stagnates smells and the rotting vegatation  plus warmth of the building  helps breed flies, midges. Lots and lots of them!

When we broke the dam of resistance, the monopoly of the RCC over where they were to be entombed or buried, the flood of removals of long dead remains from Roman Catholic cemetery's mausoleums was an overwhelming and miserable task!!! The families of deceased members wanted their loved one's close to them, so they could visit near daily.  That was there culture. We were a secular  in their eyes mausoleum, and the church would not allow for burial rites at such a place. None the less money talks, and families found they could buy an undeveloped mausoleum crypt from us, wait for it to be built, even pay all the fees for removal and re-entombment and still be ahead of the costs they had sustained  at the Catholic Church owned  mausoleum.  The church having  in it's contract that  the family could only sell back the crypts to the cemetery became an unexpected liability for they also said they will buy back if it is not to be used. 

I was stunned to find I had some 211 removals and re-entombments to schedule once our newest mausoleum was finished. So was the church that were then obliged to pay the families back  the money they had paid for the catholic cemetery crypts, that the church cemetery district then had to sell yet again, to people no longer willing to be forced into buying there.

That awful miserable experience alone convinced me that cremation makes sense, there is nothing at all that is not the most miserable of chores than the relocation of a casketed human remains. And those so called sealed caskets- not so much in the long run.

We also had to convince those families that no they could not be there for yet more services at that time. They could arrange a dedication service afterward. Many insisted upon at least a witness. Boy did those witnesses get  an awakening! I think the idea that  it is this corrupted body that God somehow reconstitutes became a nah that can't be, and also a I sure don't want it to be, experience for them all. 

Well so much for cheer this morning eh?

Edited October 15, 2017 by Neighbor