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Josah

Is deception biblically defensible?

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If we are deceiving a corrupt thing to advance the Kingdom of God are we justified in His eyes? 

Matthew 10:16

"Pay attention, now! I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.

Galations 1:10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

Ephesians 6:12

12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

 

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A very tricky question. Would two wrongs make something right? I think not. Be very, very careful.

If it is an establishment thing that is seen as 'corrupt', and we use deception to supposedly thwart it to 'advance God's Kingdom', I would not do that! The Lord God is quite able to advance His Kingdom the way He determines.

Remember what happened to that guy that steadied the ark of the covenant?  Try not to, 'give God a helping hand'.
Steer clear of deception. Insofar as what you have said that is my take on this.

I know Brother Andrew delivered thousands of Bibles and you might argue that he used deception to do that. But do not for a moment think that that would give you carte blanc to do the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

A very tricky question. Would two wrongs make something right? I think not. Be very, very careful.

If it is an establishment thing that is seen as 'corrupt', and we use deception to supposedly thwart it to 'advance God's Kingdom', I would not do that! The Lord God is quite able to advance His Kingdom the way He determines.

Remember what happened to that guy that steadied the ark of the covenant?  Try not to, 'give God a helping hand'.
Steer clear of deception. Insofar as what you have said that is my take on this.

I know Brother Andrew delivered thousands of Bibles and you might argue that he used deception to do that. But do not for a moment think that that would give you carte blanc to do the same thing.

2

Reword: We use deception to navigate around that corrupt authority so as to advance the Kingdom of God.

 

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7 minutes ago, Josah said:

Reword: We use deception to navigate around that corrupt authority so as to advance the Kingdom of God.

OK. I hear you. What country are you in that you need to do this? There are still a few places on the planet where it would be wise not to shout loudly in the market place that, "I AM A CHRISTIAN - COME AND GET ME...."

Being discrete is not necessarily deception. Proverbs says that if you pull the ears of a dog it may bite your nose. So not doing that is wise!

Be a little more specific please, since so far, I see no evidence to support any kind of deception.

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3 hours ago, Josah said:

If we are deceiving a corrupt thing to advance the Kingdom of God are we justified in His eyes?

Why would we need to use deception at all?

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3 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

I know Brother Andrew delivered thousands of Bibles and you might argue that he used deception to do that.

In the House Ministry, I was helping at  (back around '79) the director who also had a shoe repair shop linked up with Brother Andrew on a scheme to order shoes from one fairly open Province to have them shipped to America. The plan was from the open Province to the heavily guarded Province bibles would be smuggled in via the shoe boxes. The operation was a success but not without God's humor. When the shoe shop owner received the shoes, here in America, they were practically the size of children's shoes as China's shoe size was vastly different than American's. lol

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can salt water and fresh water come from the same spring? 

And even more, the only part of advancing the Kingdom of God any one can ever possibly have is just being available to God so He can use you.  We dont help God because God dont need our help.  Jesus said he would build His church. 

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I don't think deception is what Christian's do, it is trait of the enemy.

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33 minutes ago, Davida said:

I don't think deception is what Christian's do, it is trait of the enemy.

Yes... We were called to preach and to live in truth and light. Some refuse it, others accept it.

"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you." - John 10:26

 

"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    “Who committed no sin,
    Nor was deceit found in His mouth”" - 1 Peter 2:21-22

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36 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Yes... We were called to preach and to live in truth and light. Some refuse it, others accept it.

"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you." - John 10:26

 

"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
    “Who committed no sin,
    Nor was deceit found in His mouth”" - 1 Peter 2:21-22

 

I find it funny that it says "Who committed no sin" and then mentions "nor was deceit found in His mouth"

Why: because it is essentially implying that deceit is undesirable but it is not necessarily a sin.

in essence, it is saying that deceit is an undesirability set apart from sin...

It also creates some expectation that deceit is a feasible tool for navigating certain difficulties

it bothers to mention that deceit was not found in his mouth, further implying that sinlessness and the practice of deceit are entirely possible. 

anyways, it seems the form of deceit is what is most important... 

Jeremiah 9:8-9

"Their tongue is a deadly arrow; It speaks deceit; With his mouth one speaks peace to his neighbor, But inwardly he sets an ambush for him. "Shall I not punish them for these things?" declares the LORD. "On a nation such as this Shall I not avenge Myself?

Psalm 119:118

World English Bible
You reject all those who stray from your statutes, for their deceit is in vain.

118You have rejected all those who wander from Your statutes, For their deceitfulness is useless.

Further implying that there is a good form of deceit and that there is a bad form of deceit.  

10For, “Whoever would lovelife and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.

this verse is interesting, but again, deceit can be a reflection of our circumstances, if deceit is being employed then that would mean you are not well poised in to "see good days" 

i must certainly am not well poised to "see good days" 

deceit is a necessary condition for the advancement of the Kingdom of God 

New Living Translation (NEW WORLD ORDER translation)
You will destroy those who tell lies. The LORD detests murderers and deceivers.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Thou shalt destroy those that speak lies: the LORD will abominate the bloody and deceitful man.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth a man of blood and deceit.

American Standard Version
Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man.

CLEARLY, this is saying that a man which is both BLOOD-THIRSTY and DECEITFUL is an abomination to the LORD. 

I could never see myself killing someone unjustly, nor have I ever killed someone unjustly, or justly, for that matter. 

The point is this: deceit on its own is not bad, as the NEW WORLD ORDER translation might have you think. 

AMEN. 

 

Edited by Josah

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