Bethel Church - A Different Gospel

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, Joshua-777 said:

But those who have graduated the school, teachers, etc. don't believe in grave sucking, they are not taught that and will say that is ridiculous. If you have disagreements with their teaching, ok, but please use their teaching. Saying cult, false, heresy, and fake is an opinion of yours and not evidence.

I don't think all of them are into grave sucking, and I don't anyone said that everyone at Bethel is into  that. But it is a practice by some and taught by Johnson.  And like I said, false teachers don't lay all of the cards on the table up front.

[Joshua-777]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

That's  what I mean when I say that you don't take events in the Bible and make doctrine out of them or expect God to replicate the same thing, which what false teachers do.   

The false "Word of Faith" teachers use the story of Elijah and the widow of Zarepeth to con the poor into giving them money, as if these teachers are Elijah.  These charlatans con people who should be spending their money on necessities to send that money to them based off of that story and promising that God will do for them what he did for the widow of Zarapeth. 

Just because the glory filled the old temple, it is not an indicator that God is going to do that in churches and most of that stuff is fake, anyway.  It's all about sensationalism. 

Trying drum up sensationalist garbage like glory clouds and gold dust doesn't glorify God; it simply satisfies carnal, unregenerate appetites of those in attendance.  It's a complete sham.    And the undiscerning fall for it every time.

You have an issue with the Word of Faith denomination. Not the same thing.

With the Glory of the Lord, we are the new temple, filled with His Presence through His Spirit, it's not the same thing, it's even better!!!

2 Corinthians3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. ¹⁰ For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

Also, glory clouds or gold dust don't come to those seeing it, no one was searching for gold dust or clouds when they showed up they were lost in worship and it happened. My friend Keven was at Bethel and he said that night, the church was in deep worship singing the Lords Prayer and then the glory cloud hit, the gold dust was coming up from the floor floating the the ceiling.

I responded earlier with much scripture, from the old testament, to the new about the manifest glory of the Lord, can you show me in scripture why that wouldn't happen or that God wouldn't do something like that ever again?

[Joshua-777]

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I don't think all of them are into grave sucking, and I don't anyone said that everyone at Bethel is into  that. But it is a practice by some and taught by Johnson.  And like I said, false teachers don't lay all of the cards on the table up front.

Then show me where he taught that or you have no evidence.

[Joshua-777]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

oh please Josh. I attended a charismatic NAR church I know what they teach about passing on mantels and anointings.

Ok, did you attend a church that said go to graves and such out their anointing? If you did, I'm sorry but you joined a cult. Passing on Mantles and anointing is not the same thing as grave sucking. If you disagree with that doctrine, thats ok, but that isn't heresy or a salvation issue. if you would like to discuss the doctrine of impartation, lets do it from scripture.

[Fidei Defensor]

Does Bethel have a statement of faith and a list of their dogma on their website so as to verify the claims of their errata?

[Joshua-777]

2 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Does Bethel have a statement of faith and a list of their dogma on their website so as to verify the claims of their errata?

Here's their statement of faith

https://www.bethel.com/about/


What We Believe

There is only one true God who is the eternal King, Creator and Redeemer of all that is. He is perfectly holy, just, loving and truthful. He has revealed Himself to be eternally self-existent – one being in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

The Bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.

Humankind was created in the image of God to know and enjoy Him yet we willfully rejected the Lordship and glory of God for which we were intended. Because of this, sickness, death and judgment entered the world and now creation experiences the effects and consequences of sin.

The Lord Jesus Christ, the one and only Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin, Mary, and is God's Anointed One, empowered by the Holy Spirit to inaugurate God's kingdom on earth. He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected and ascended into heaven, and is now alive today in the presence of God the Father and in His people. He is "true God" and "true man."
 

We are saved by God's grace, through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Anyone can be restored to fellowship with God through repenting, believing and receiving Jesus as their Savior and Lord. The Holy Spirit, convicts, regenerates, justifies, and adopts us as we enter the kingdom of God as His sons and daughters.

In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live holy and minister supernaturally. The baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1:4-8 and 2:4 is poured out on believers that they might have power to be witnesses.

The victorious redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides freedom from the power of the enemy – sin, lies, sickness and torment.

The Church consists of all who put their faith in Jesus Christ. He gave His church the ordinances of baptism and communion. The Church exists to carry on the ministry of Jesus Christ and further advance His kingdom by undoing the works of the enemy, preaching and living the good news of God's love, and discipling the nations – baptizing and teaching them to love and obey God.

In the ever-increasing government of God and in the Blessed Hope, which is the glorious visible return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His overcoming bride – His church. Heaven and hell are real places. There will be a resurrection of the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting death.

[Joshua-777]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

Why was Johnsons wife Beni lying on C.S. Lewis's grave??

Can you quote Beni? I was at a gay pride festival a few weeks ago. If someone took a picture and blasted it saying I am LGBQ then they would be misunderstanding the context. I was there sharing the Gospel.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Joshua-777

[Fidei Defensor]

7 minutes ago, Davida said:

Really?? since when is that what false teachers do ?  you think ...they put their heresies in their Statement of Faith? Satan is far to clever for that.

Some do post their heresies openly, if they are as proud as Satan (Isaiah 14:10-14). The RCC puts the very doctrines we dispute with in their Catechism, I was hoping Bethel had one I could examine. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

1 minute ago, Cobalt1959 said:

But not to seek after them in the way that Charismatics teach.  Pentecostals are fixated on tongues.  Charismatics have a fetish with prophesy.  Extremely odd because not everyone is supposed to prophesy any more than everyone is supposed to speak in tongues.  Those are not the only two spiritual gifts, but people in those circles only want those two.  So badly they form schools where they think they can teach those gifts to people.  As if they could.  Charismatic's are obviously not that accomplished at prophecy sins most of them turn out wrong.  If you are dabbling in prophecy you have to have a 100% success rate.  No other option there.

Actually, 1 Corinthians 14:1 uses the word "desire," which is the Greek word "zeloo.'  It does not have the meaning you are giving it.  A wise person will zealously and fervently desire spiritual gifts also realizing at the same time that the Holy Spirit is the one who bestows them, they are not one-size-fits-all, and you are not going to get the one you necessarily want like asking Santa for the gift of prophecy for Christmas.  In Charismatic logic, everyone gets to prophesy.  The rest of the spiritual gifts hang out in the bargain bin at the Dollar Tree.

Another problem in Charismata Churches is they don’t test the prophecies, “29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh (test) carefully what is said,” (1 Corinthians 14:29) and “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.“ (1 John 4:1). One must test the spirits and prophecy with Scripture, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,“ (2 Timothy 3:16), and the discerning of spirits gift of the Holy Spirit, “to another distinguishing between spirits.”(1 Corinthians 12:10). 

[Joshua-777]

2 minutes ago, Davida said:

 

I'd advise to rethink who and what you are defending with all these mental calisthenics. It's not working by the way.

 

I only jumped in this topic because I'm sick of seeing it used to spread hatred and malice against other believers in Jesus Christ. Like it or not, you are condemning many brothers and sisters in the faith on non-salvation issues. We are not saved by glory clouds, or believing in mantles but by faith in Jesus alone. It is not a different Gospel/ If they believe Jesus is anything other than the Son of God, and God in the Flesh, I wouldn't even think of defending them. If they believed that works can save us, or there is no hell, I wouldn't support them at all. But they believe in the Risen Lord and it is on the basis of Christ alone they are saved. I personally believe Charismatic Churches need more people who dive deep in scripture, more accountability, and more to challenge them not to confuse being nice and encouraging with the prophetic.

 

If you have something against them, go to the source and go to scripture. Slapping Heretic on them and saying it over and over again does not cut it. What you are saying when you do that is that they are of the devil and are not saved. If they are saved, even if they are off, you are coming against the bride of Christ. You are bashing those that belong to Jesus..