Jump to content
IGNORED

Bethel Church - A Different Gospel


Guest shiloh357

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

On 9/3/2018 at 2:52 PM, Joshua-777 said:

1 cor 14, Paul encourages us to seek after specific gifting such as prophesy and interpretation. 

 

 

FROM GOD..the gifts come from God !  and God decides...not a person

one main reason for so many false prophets around contradicting each other, is because God never chose them.  they either chose themself or duped people not exercising discernment flattered them into thinking they were 'special'

there is no precedent for teaching people how to prophesy etc except for the school of the prophets in the OT

isn't it awfully convenient that churches like Bethel will quote from either the OT or the NT depending on which one agrees with or they think agrees, with what they already have decided to do?

 

maybe they should decide if they want a temple or a Christian congregation :29:

Bethel has all kinds of schools.  you name and they got it or if not, it will be created soon

and has been pointed out, there has been scrubbing going on in some of these schools because of the outcry of Christians concerning the false teachings and experimentation going on, including regression therapy practiced by NON professionals who by their confession of Christ are told they have the ability to do something that the actual professionals in the field have backed away from with the conclusion that regression therapy produces FALSE memories

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

I'd like to add to the above, that one of the hallmarks of the NAR movement, seems to be that a person calling themself a Christian and practicing a supposed gift always supersedes even the most qualified individual who is not a part of this movement

I suppose they confirm their own wrong belief they are going to make a way for Christ to return to earth and He will not return until they get everything ready for Him

that is the end game

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

when you have to give up something that is going to completely change your worldview or personal paradigm you are going to defend your position until you either get angry with those opposing you or you are going to defend yourself with 'God would not let that happen to me because He knows how sincere I am'

didn't work for me and it isn't going to work for anyone who goes into the NAR movement no matter how sincere or even actually gifted of God

I am afraid, that God truly is not going to make any exceptions and I am also of the belief that His objectivity is the best for all of us and if He were as subjective as some would believe, then we are in a world of trouble and there is no hope for us

it is BECAUSE He has the same standard for everyone, that we know He is impartial and not making exceptions and we can count on Him to judge righteously

For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:11

NAR would have us believe that the truth is IN the exceptions that they practice and would convince us that God is not in a box

thing is, they have opened Pandora's box and not a box created by God

the closest thing to a box God created in which He represented Himself, was the Ark of the Covenant and within that 'containment' was death if approached inappropriately

situated in the Holy of Holies and approachable but once a year by the High Priest, who committed Himself to a life and death situation with a rope around his ankle in case he could not return the way he went in

yes we can now approach God because of all that Christ did for us if we are in Him.  but God is Holy and the exact same God that gave instructions for the Ark to be made

people are going to run after the false as the Bible indicates they will, to have their itching ears scratched, and all you can do is warn them

 

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  494
  • Content Per Day:  0.17
  • Reputation:   208
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/15/2016
  • Status:  Offline

21 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I've been studying the whacked spectrum of the Charismatic movement that morphed into the New Apostolic Reformation for years.  C. Peter Wagner.  Bob Jones.  Mike Bickle.  John Wimber.  Bill Johnson.  It's a close circle of Charismatics that latch onto the wildest, most extreme "new" Charismatic shining star, like Bentley, make flaky, general prophecies over him and then act surprised when he flames out in scandal.  No worries though, they just have him lay low for a while and then let him pop back up somewhere else after "restoration."  What this "restoration" consists of is never actually explained in any detail at all.  Just some person's word that the person went through a "restoration" process is supposed to seal the deal and then Bentley can take his re-branded Fresh Fire Rockin' & Rollin' Holy Angel Revival on the road.  Silly me.

Rick Joyner handled Bentley's supposed "restoration," but he's never given any specific details about what the "restoration" entailed or how it was handled, so accountability seems to be on the low end of the scale when it comes to leadership in Charismatic circles.  A year later, after committing adultery and leaving his first wife, Bentley was back on the road talking about financial angels and none the worse for wear.  I can give you much more fitting scripture when it comes to leadership, one that "leaders" in Charismatic circles continually ignore:

1 Timothy 3:2-7  2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,  3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.  4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect.  5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)  6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.  7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. 

Titus 1:6-9  6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.  7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.  8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined.
9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

 

Todd Bentley actually violates just about every requirement in the scriptures above.  But in Charismatic circles, personal responsibility, accountability, and credibility are not required.  Neither are sound doctrine, actual biblical knowledge or humility.  Just the words  "Mighty works of God!" and "Powerful Supernatural Experience!" are enough to validate you.  Again:  Form with no substance.

 

The topic at hand is Bill Johnson.  Todd Bentley is an easy target.  You must know a lot about restoration.  What would restoration look like to you?  You must be spiritual as in Galatians 6:1 and you have a spirit of meekness so surly you could help. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

19 hours ago, Joshua-777 said:

I think these parents had been fed a lot of fear and paranoia from heresy hunters and believed it.

 

with what I disagree with, 

I don’t so much agree with sozo, (prophetic inner healing) I’ve seen too many people get weird with it.

I have heard a range of eschatology out of bethel, many of them hold different beliefs from one another.

A few other things im still searching to see where they stand on,

3
Quote

A few other things im still searching to see where they stand on,

 

Did you talk to George?

He's easy to talk too and will gladly discuss it with you...

I actually do believe the parent who lost their daughter to this cult :( 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

6 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

The topic at hand is Bill Johnson.  Todd Bentley is an easy target.  You must know a lot about restoration.  What would restoration look like to you?  You must be spiritual as in Galatians 6:1 and you have a spirit of meekness so surly you could help. 

 

well no

 

the topic is Bethel church of which Johnson is one of the main characters 

if Bentley is an easy target, then so is Johnson because he was on of the original 'new apostles' who put his stamp of approval on le Bentley right fro square one and they blessed him and sent him forth to do the damage he did

you can't make this stuff up 

 

there was a youtube video in which Johnson and the rest of the self appointed apostle dudes, actually COMMISSIONED Bentley to 'go forth" and this would have been when he was already involved in adultery but it had not yet been made public

I watched that video myself

 

guess what?  it has been made 'no longer available'

that is what these people do.  they run after themselves and get rid of the evidence

there is another youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JONXRO4vPSc from which you can see where the link to the video I'm talking about is but when you click on it, it now takes you to where the vid used to be 

it's still in God's records though and they are going to reap a harvest they will not know what to do with

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

7 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Even up to this morning, I knew that Bethel's doctrine was more than just poor, at it's core, it is wrong, but I didn't understand exactly why, and I now know why.  When I watched a very-well done video on Bethel, the person succinctly displays, not just in his own words, but Bill Johnson's words, as he preaches to his own church, what a discerning person can see for themselves exactly where the doctrinal problem is.  I didn't have time to finish the video this morning, but I will post a link to it here when I have finished watching it.

First off, as with any false doctrine, Bethel uses self-validation to confirm that their doctrine is correct.  We are making an "impact."  So the doctrine must be correct.  Our numbers are large.   So the doctrine must be correct.  We have signs and wonders.  So the doctrine must be correct.  We have all this "good stuff" going on, so we obviously could not be wrong, or we would not be successful.  We've seen that right here in this thread.  Examples that Bethel is making an "impact."  Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists make an "impact" as well.  That does not mean that their doctrine is correct.  Cults get results because the entire purpose of a cult is not to operate within the confines of sound biblical doctrine, it is simply designed to self-perpetuate through results.  A cult is a machine designed to reproduce.  Bethel logic is an infinite loop.

"Our doctrine is sound because we get results.  We get results because our doctrine is sound."

Self-confirming circular logic.

I was under the wrong impression that Bill Johnson was at least to some degree, a charlatan, but he definitely is not.  He is the most dangerous form of false teacher because he quite clearly believes what he is teaching.  He is also dangerous because he refuses to even entertain the possibility that his doctrine might be wrong. 

Johnson bases his theology completely on Jesus.  But that Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.  It is a Jesus that Johnson has pretty much assembled himself as to who he thinks that Jesus is, during 3 1/2 years of His earthly life and ignoring the Jesus of all of the Old Testament, and the rest of the New Testament.  Johnson's theology has no room for a God who judges righteously.  Johnson's theology has no room for a God who allows bad things to happen in this world because mankind has a fallen nature.  Johnson's theology has no room for a God that expects more from people than signs and wonders, wealth, and health.  Johnson has this over-riding vision of "revival, " and what that revival looks like and that "revival's" main goal is not to reconcile people to God through salvation in Jesus Christ.  It is to grow the organization that Johnson envisions, heads and sees taking over the entire earth at some point as a complete replacement of the present orthodox church.

I already knew that Johnson has no use, or respect for the Bible, but I did not understand why.  Now I understand why.  Because most of the Bible is useless to Johnson because he can't use it in his theology.  The only parts he can use are the Gospels and the Epistles.  He can't use any of the Old Testament, and he can't use Revelation because all those books illustrate a Jesus Johnson can't use and refuses to believe exists.  Jesus is love.  That is all Johnson sees, or wants to see.  He can't use a Jesus that is also just.  He has this concept of what Jesus is and anything in the Bible that contradicts that concept is dismissed as a "lesser" truth, (his words, not mine) so he can just toss them out.  Johnson never uses entire sections of scripture to undergird his message and he never practices exegesis or hermeneuetics to explain the text.  He uses one proof text and only as a prop to give the impression he "uses" the Bible for his doctrine, but he only uses the text, interpreted wrong, to build his own theology around it.  There are no checks and balances in Johnson's theology because he dismisses 3/4's of the Bible since he believes it is full of "lesser" truths that no longer apply.  Johnson also believes that "new" teachings from present day "Apostles," ( which he is one of) usurps and replaces the teachings of the original Apostles.  He believes his teachings supersede the teachings of the Bible as being more relevant and more applicable to today's world.  Johnson's Jesus is a New Age Jesus we don't see in the Bible.  This is why nothing Bethel does can be viewed as bad, or wrong, or heretical by people who are within Bethel itself, because their doctrinal and theological logic is a self-validating infinite loop.

 

as I have said a number of times now, the Bible is pretty much passe for them and yes he uses it like a prop

there is power there.  power to deceive.  power to seduce and deceive

they will use the OT though for things like 'mantles' 

they will use whatever they can that 'sounds' right

Jesus Culture is a huge money making machine for them just like United is for Hillsong

as someone pointed out, not in this forum, they focus on spreading 'revival' but that was never what the Apostles were sent out to do

that is not the commission Jesus gave

I personally heard someone go further and further from the truth until they were saying things like 'the Lord's prayer is obsolete and wrong for us today' and most of what Jesus taught is 'under the law' so don't worry about any of that

and also 'we don't have to forgive anyone we can just go to Jesus'

it actually gets much worse and includes thing like astral projection.  I'm not exaggerating.  you are only touching on the tip of this iceburg of deception

Edited by Sevenseas
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

I should add, that one reason Johnson has no problem covering up what goes on, is because they do not see people who object as included in the great commission to bring Jesus back

we are religious and stagnant and Pharisees

that is the inside party line

they are above any criticism and like a hydra and spreading all the time as seducing evil spirits do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357
2 hours ago, Sevenseas said:

 

as I have said a number of times now, the Bible is pretty much passe for them and yes he uses it like a prop

there is power there.  power to deceive.  power to seduce and deceive

they will use the OT though for things like 'mantles' 

they will use whatever they can that 'sounds' right

Jesus Culture is a huge money making machine for them just like United is for Hillsong

as someone pointed out, not in this forum, they focus on spreading 'revival' but that was never what the Apostles were sent out to do

that is not the commission Jesus gave

I personally heard someone go further and further from the truth until they were saying things like 'the Lord's prayer is obsolete and wrong for us today' and most of what Jesus taught is 'under the law' so don't worry about any of that

and also 'we don't have to forgive anyone we can just go to Jesus'

it actually gets much worse and includes thing like astral projection.  I'm not exaggerating.  you are only touching on the tip of this iceburg of deception

Don't forget about the Christian Tarot Cards they tolerate from some of their members.  https://pulpitandpen.org/2017/12/19/to-be-edited-bethel-tarot-cards/

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Don't forget about the Christian Tarot Cards they tolerate from some of their members.  https://pulpitandpen.org/2017/12/19/to-be-edited-bethel-tarot-cards/

right

as I said, what is being posted is only the tip of the iceburg

so many Charismatics are already into 'Christian fortune telling' so it's not that big a step to dabble in (cough cough) disguised tarot cards

and then deny doing it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...