MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said: So you're saying Christians never sin after they are saved? They do sin. But Paul is referring to those Christians who are thrown into the quick-an-easy saving. Ex: they're asked by the pastor, 'do you believe Jesus is your savior?'. You answer yes, and he says okay you're saved now. But that means essentially nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 Just now, Sojourner414 said: Ah, gotcha. You're speaking of "cheap grace" then. Yea, I assume those are the people who claim he's a false prophet. The truth isn't comfortable enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Yowm said: Justification is the declaration of being righteous. In God's eyes a man is only declared righteous through faith in Jesus Christ as a free gift. James is speaking of that faith perfected. I think James' biggest point is: without works, your faith means nothing: for even demons believe! 'OH you say you know Jesus? So do demons, and they even tremble, do you?' His point being, claiming to know Jesus means nothing, without producing fruit. "They claim to know me, but by their actions they deny me" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, Yowm said: True, so long as our works are not the grounds of God's approval. They are not...only Jesus works on our behalf is acceptable before God for our justification. Exactly. We won't be saved by works alone, but also not by faith alone. They go hand in hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Yowm said: We are saved by works alone...His works. Our works contributes 0% to our salvation. Our contribution is confession of our sin and faith in Jesus alone. Without works, faith is dead. I'm not saying that if a Christian does n0 works in his life, he won't be saved. Depends on the situation like the thief on the cross. I'm saying if a Christian doesn't follow the scripture's rule on works, he will not be saved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Yowm said: The only works we can boast of are the ones He works in us. Without Him we can do nothing. Thus all glory goes to Him. Philippians 2:13 NASBS [13] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. John 15:5 NASBS [5] I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. Ephesians 2:8-10 NASBS [8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; [9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Seems like you're trying to create an argument here. I'm agreeing with you, yet you're still fishing for triggers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Yowm said: I'm just trying to make clear my stance. Our works contributes zero-zip-nada-00 to our salvation, that's all. Yes... I already agreed with that multiple times. I'm saying, after we are saved, if we show no works, our faith means nothing. Read James 2:14 again. It'll give you an example of how faith alone won't save you. You can ignore that statement all you want, but it's still there. "without works, faith is dead". Very clearly stated by James. "For I say to you*, unless your* righteousness greatly exceeds [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means shall you* enter into the kingdom of the heavens." "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." "You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." Ephesians 2:8 is saying: without knowing Jesus, but doing good works, your works are meaningless. Meaning without Jesus you won't get salvation by doing works. But once you have Jesus, you need faith to align with works. He's not saying, if you have faith and don't do works, you'll be saved. We boast that Jesus saved us(because it's his gift and his works), and not boast about works we do for him. Because those works are through God, so he is given glory, not us. You can throw quotes around, but without their implied meaning, you won't get anywhere. Edited October 21, 2017 by AscendedMasters333 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2017 People don't like Paul Washer, or any other conservative preacher for that matter, because they would rather live how they want instead of living in obedience to God's Word. I can't though figure out why people will subject themselves to preachers they do not like and then start verbal telling others how much they can't stand listening to them. If one doesn't like a certain preaching style or what don't like what they teach then move on and listen to someone else. Its a pretty easy solution. I think people like to grumble and complain about something. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2017 7 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said: Exactly. We won't be saved by works alone, but also not by faith alone. They go hand in hand. The good works a Christian produces is because of his faith in Christ. Works, regardless of does them, does not save period. Ephesians 2:8-9 (a well-known verse) clearly teaches that it is faith an faith alone that saves. End of story. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted October 21, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 21, 2017 6 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said: Yes... I already agreed with that multiple times. I'm saying, after we are saved, if we show no works, our faith means nothing. Our faith still actually means something. What the problem is that our faith is producing anything and we are not being a good steward of what God has given us. Are you saying that a person isn't saved if they are not doing good works as a Christian? 6 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said: Read James 2:14 again. It'll give you an example of how faith alone won't save you. You can ignore that statement all you want, but it's still there. "without works, faith is dead". Very clearly stated by James. "For I say to you*, unless your* righteousness greatly exceeds [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means shall you* enter into the kingdom of the heavens." "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." "You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." Ephesians 2:8 is saying: without knowing Jesus, but doing good works, your works are meaningless. Meaning without Jesus you won't get salvation by doing works. But once you have Jesus, you need faith to align with works. He's not saying, if you have faith and don't do works, you'll be saved. We boast that Jesus saved us(because it's his gift and his works), and not boast about works we do for him. Because those works are through God, so he is given glory, not us. What you are doing is just taking scriptures here and there to try and somehow justify your arguments that faith and works are what saves. Scripture, as others have pointed out, teaches that "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17. Also can you show us how Ephesians 2:8 teaches that we have to do good works along with faith? What you have done is twisted the scripture, and quite horribly I might add. Here is what Ephesians 2:8-9 actually says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." You cannot separate verse 9. The verse teaches that salvation is only through faith. Faith is not the gift, salvation is. Works, regardless of how good they are, are absolutely worthless because works causes man to boast in what they can do. If my salvation was merited on my faith and my works I would not be saved. Question: What happens is a person does something that is sinful? Can Christians sin? See the problem with you belief is that in order for my faith to save me then my works have to be spot on as well. And unless I am sinless I am going to do both good things and unfortunately because of sin I am going to do bad things(I try not to but I am not sinless, at least not in this life). What makes this even more difficult is that you will make a statement, saying you agree, and then make another statement that contradicts what you just agreed with. This is what makes us question your statements. They are not consistent. 6 hours ago, AscendedMasters333 said: You can throw quotes around, but without their implied meaning, you won't get anywhere. This is what you are doing with your posts unfortunately. I have read through all the other posts and Yowm, Sojourner and others have used God's Word appropriately and have shown the truth of the gospel that scripture teaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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