Saturday or Sunday?

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Exactly what I showed you delighting in the lord, not doing my own thing to exclude God but putting God at the forefront for him, discussing God and upholding his commandment and not mixing with idle nonsense

Thats it, thats the sabbath.

THIS IS TRUE.    THIS IS THE TRUE SABBATH OF THE LORD.      THE THING IS IN CHRIST WE LIVE IT DAILY. 

ENTER INTO THE SABBATH OF THE LORD , find REST FOR YOUR SOULS.   We supposed to put GOD at the FOREFRONT EVERY DAY  ,we supposed to talk about GOD and HOLY

EVERY DAY , we supposed to not mix idle nonsense EVERY DAY.

Labor therefor to enter in , lest any man fall after the example of UNBELIEF.

Most who either attack the Sabbath or say HOLD it err.   I have seen many a person who preaches the KEEPING of Sabbath , YET they themselves DO NOT HONOR

it AS GOD had told the JEWS to KEEP it .   jews were stoned for gathering on the Sabbath, they could do NO WORK ON IT, yet one said IF you have to work

at least fast. NOPE that does not honor the very day they accuse others of not honoring .    THEY say and yet they DO NOT EITHER.

I have seen many an Adventist condmen many who hold not the Sabbath, YET THEY WILL TEACH an incorrect holding of it themselves.

THEY will make exuse for why they work and yet condmen others WHO WORK .   I HAVE SEEN IT, they attack , attack over meats and sabbath

yet they themselves DO NOT KEEP IT ACCORDING TO THE OLD TEST WAY.   

THEY point the finger and yet cannot teach how to observe it correctly either.    a madhouse .

Then others who attack them for trying to keep it , make wrong points too.    And the whole time is bickering and striving.

IF a man wants to hold one day above another, THEN DO IT , but condmen not those who see every day alike

if a man is persadued he must not eat meats, THEN DONT , but condmen not those who do

and let those who eat meat or see every day alike NOT wound the conscious on the one who does,  tis sin to do so, to cause the weak one to stumble.

Jesus did not condmen the Sabbath, HE SHOWED US HOW TO LIVE IT .    a man can do good on the Sabbath.    But even the jews held a council concerning the gentiles.

meats , drinks , days is not sin, IT is will worship .     Let each man worship as HE is fully persuaded in his own mind and condmen not the other.

I had an Adventist tell me not to eat pork .   to which I did not eat it .  no big deal for me, my belly will not be the ruin of another man .

yet the same man , when I asked him about REMARRIAGE , the dude said SURE YOU CAN REMARRY FOR GOD GIVES GRACE.

this due was leading me into SIN for adultery IS SIN, yet he saw this not as sin, yet sees the Sabbath or meats AS SIN .    SAY WHAT......yeah they lost .

they will go  out and proclaim a Sabbath they do not honor correctly , they will condmen those who eat meat

yet will not focus on preaching CHRIST and observing HIS rightlfully divided sayings.  nope they dishonor GOD for they cannot even keep what they claim to keep

and they condmen men for not keeping what they do not keep.   its a madhouse.     THIS needs to cease asap.  

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] I would agree with the Lord Jesus Christ, which in effect makes the matter of none effect, because we should be behaving the same every day regardless what day of the week it is, for we are called to do well every day.

"Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days?" (Matthew 12:10)

"..it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." (Matthew 12:12)

[Justin Adams]

INERRANT dichotomy.

How does 'inerrant' work to the favor of wrong translations? It allows the 'believer' to paste themselves into a very tight corner, and the scholar or translator to be above any law or inspection or reproach. Thus if one were to believe every Biblical writer or translator were inerrant, one would replace God's perfection with that of man's. It is correct to say that the Lord God will always perform that which His WORD (Yeshua) sets out to do; and His Commandments; but to suppose that man does not make errors is at best highly suspect, and at worse a whimsical fallacy.

[Wayne222]

Seventh day Sabbath rest is not for Christians. It was for Israel under Moses. God rested on the seventh day of creation. That was a sign.                               We don't need that sign because christ is our sign of belonging to God. Israel was set apart from the other nations because they kept Sabbath rest. The sabbaths were a sign that Isarel belong to God. Christ is our rest and sign now. That is why the 7 day sabbath is a shadow. 

[Pudgenik]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Nah, but I do find it amusing and ironic that the strongest proponents of required Sabbath observance make that argument while violating the Sabbath by showing up on this board on the Sabbath to rebuke us for violating the Sabbath.

Well said

[Pudgenik]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Jesus never taught Sabbath observance.

True, but you don't see those with the Gift of Healing making mud from spit either.

[brakelite]

14 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

You are not the first SDA we have ever had on this board.   We have had, over the years, a steady diet of SDA theology from SDA people.   We know what they believe and is based on the notion of having to keep the 10 commandments in order to be saved.   Which is why SDA people do not have a part in the Kingdom.  They are trusting in their works for salvation and not Christ.

Riighht. So you are depending on people's opinions as to what the SDA church teaches. I have seen a myriad of perspectives and opinions on justification and sanctification from people outside the SDA church, from mainline Christendom to Messianics...from orthodox to hardline Calvinist...so many opinions, arguments, debates, as I am sure you have seen for yourself, but tell me something. How many of those do you think would advocate that by ignoring the 10 commandments, even openly and or wilfully disobeying them, which the Bible calls sin, that anyone can still be saved?

And did you check that those SDA folk coming here were actually teaching or depositing clearly our beluefs...not everyone is as eloquent and intellectually advanced as yourself. Does every Presbyterian fully understand Calvinism? Do you condemn all Presbyterians because some do not get the theology of justification by faith into words in a clear succinct manner?

[brakelite]

11 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

The "prayed" part is the same tactic that Mormons use, equivalent to leading one to a pre-determined outcome.  I have studied SDA, JW and Mormon doctrine for decades.

Nothing you say is going to affect me in any way, or change the direction of the conversation until you answer this simple question:

How do you keep the Sabbath?

I've asked this question of a wide variety of so-called Sabbath keepers, including SDA's for eleven years now and not one of them has ever answered it.  The fact that no one ever answers it says a good deal about the doctrine itself.  Because if this is something you are so adamant about, and feel others need to do, you would be chomping at the bit to tell others how to go about it.  But I have asked you this question three times now and each time you have failed to give an answer.

Actually no. Very much no. I should not be chomping at the bit to do anything of the sort. 

However way I personally observe Sabbath is between me and God. It starts with the commandment. Remembering to keep it holy. How I go about that is personally tied into my relationship with Jesus. That is not something I can put forth as a recommendation for anyone. You can work that out for yourself. Isaiah 58, long a passage known as a Christian template for living an abundant lufe, would be a good help.

But again, it starts with the commandment, and to claim that any of Gods commandments cannot be kept through His grace and power underestimates the power of God.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

53 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Riighht. So you are depending on people's opinions as to what the SDA church teaches.

Actually, I am going off what the SDA teaches and your very comments and other SDA folks in this thread.

Quote

I have seen a myriad of perspectives and opinions on justification and sanctification from people outside the SDA church, from mainline Christendom to Messianics...from orthodox to hardline Calvinist...so many opinions, arguments, debates, as I am sure you have seen for yourself, but tell me something. How many of those do you think would advocate that by ignoring the 10 commandments, even openly and or wilfully disobeying them, which the Bible calls sin, that anyone can still be saved?

A true believer doesn't ignore any of them.  Obedience to the commandments of God is the fruit of salvation, not the means by which salvation is either obtained or held on to/maintained.    And I might add that NO ONE on this thread has advocated ignoring one of the 10 commandments, not even the Sabbath.

Quote

And did you check that those SDA folk coming here were actually teaching or depositing clearly our beluefs...not everyone is as eloquent and intellectually advanced as yourself. Does every Presbyterian fully understand Calvinism? Do you condemn all Presbyterians because some do not get the theology of justification by faith into words in a clear succinct manner?

I am simply going off what SDA's have said and so far, not one SDA adherent has contradicted another.  SDA folks have never disagreed with each other on this board and are pretty unified.   So I can be pretty confident that they are correctly relating SDA theology.     If it were the case that some SDA people are getting on here and promoting false claims regarding SDA theology, it would be noticed since we have a multitude of SDA that frequent this board, together.

[brakelite]

On 20/10/2017 at 10:45 PM, shiloh357 said:

Is the Sabbath Binding on Christians Today? by John MacArthur

It is believed that the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view. In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.   The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.   The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.   In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).   Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.   There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.   When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.   The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.   In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).   In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).   The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day Sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).   Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).   So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath." John Calvin took a similar position. He wrote, There were three reasons for giving this [fourth] commandment: First, with the seventh day of rest the Lord wished to give to the people of Israel an image of spiritual rest, whereby believers must cease from their own works in order to let the Lord work in them. Secondly, he wished that there be an established day in which believers might assemble in order to hear his Law and worship him. Thirdly, he willed that one day of rest be granted to servants and to those who live under the power of others so that they might have a relaxation from their labor. The latter, however, is rather an inferred than a principal reason. As to the first reason, there is no doubt that it ceased in Christ; because he is the truth by the presence of which all images vanish. He is the reality at whose advent all shadows are abandoned. Hence St. Paul (Colossians 2:17) affirms that the Sabbath has been a shadow of a reality yet to be. And he declares else-where its truth when in the letter to the Romans, chapter 6:8, he teaches us that we are buried with Christ in order that by his death we may die to the corruption of our flesh. And this is not done in one day, but during all the course of our life, until altogether dead in our own selves, we may be filled with the life of God. Hence, superstitious observance of days must remain far from Christians. The two last reasons, however, must not be numbered among the shadows of old. Rather, they are equally valid for all ages. Hence, though the Sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church. As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual Sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for administering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. [From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes of the Christian Religion, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"]. For further study: D.A. Carson, ed., From Sabbath to Lord's Day (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1982). https://www.gospeloutreach.net/sabbath.html

As far as Col.2:14-17 is concerned it is NOT clear at all that Paul was including the weekly Sabbath day in his passage. Paul himself qualifies what things were done away in verse 17

KJV Colossians 2
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Only those feasts, Sabbath etc that were shadows were done away. No others. The weekly Sabbath was never a type, shadow, of anything to come, but a MEMORIAL of creation. It looked back, not forward. It could NOT have been a shadow of the ministry of Christ under any reasoning because it was established before the fall, which event came later and was the reason for Christs coming. Anything before the fall, including marriage, was holy and sacred, and was to remain so until all things were completed.