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Saturday or Sunday?


enoob57

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It seems to be a real paradox.  ( SELAH)

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7 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

It seems to be a real paradox. 

Well said, & I agree but there is another side to consider.  One would have to agree that we all are at some point in error, & I have changed my point of view over the years, this would not have happened had a different point not of come forward to challenge me & make me look & study from a different point of view.

I did not bring up this thread but have just responded to what I consider errors.  Or do we all go back to Catholicism or forge forward & stop at Luther at what reformer do we stop they all had errors.  

The basis of you letter was love & in that I agree.

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ONLY in a few places , ONLY in the assembly of the ekklesia immersed in Jesus' Name, born again not by blood, nor by flesh, nor by the will of man, but of GOD, 

ONLY 'there' is there union with Jesus,  and thus peace and joy and righteousness in Him,  without wrangling over useless things , or over words that are empty, or arguments that are vain ....

As ekklesia did in Scripture, in the first century,  they "endured" together in Christ Jesus ,  except for the ones who departed:  who could not bear the cost of truth, or who could not wait to see it (at the time/ maybe later they did) .

When Yahweh grants understanding of Scripture,  it is not different here, different there, different anywhere - no. 

when Yahweh grants understanding of Scripture, it is TRUTH.  Uncompromised.  Unchanged TRUTH.  Completely in Harmony with ALL of Yahweh's Plan, Purpose and Salvation in Jesus, and not contradicting ANY OF HIS OWN WORD - no contradictions for those who WAIT FOR HIM.  (for uderstanding, for life, for all that is needed in life in this life and in the next) .....

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4 hours ago, Abdicate said:

They didn't meet on Sunday... that's what I'm saying. Every bible translated from 300 AD onward, yes, mistranslated.  The Catholics forced it and remains to this day, and when the Protestants broke away, they didn't question many traditions.

Looking for the larger power (certainly identified in God's Word) that was before , and besides, and within, and over the religious powers (all of them, not just rcc, throught the ages) that are not in Christ Jesus nor part of Him .....

Actually,  perhaps identified in Scripture several times and ways ?   (the works thereof that Jesus was sent to destroy)

Simply:  what is even bigger evil than the one world religion,  and the one world government, and who deceived the internet users who are still under its power ?

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4 hours ago, Riccardo said:

It is one of the 10 commandments, which of the others do you want to abolish.

And you say Jesus was a sinner.  

Jesus spiritualized them all and they are covered in his two....   but his two are much more strict than the ten commandments.   You can follow the ten commandments you whole life and still go to hell....    and when you push the ten commandments you can give people a false sense of security of salvation.

Quote

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
NASB

Here is two groups of people....   one group going to heaven and one going to hell.     So which of the ten commandments did the group going to hell break?

 

They broke Jesus's second commandment....   not one of the ten.....    What we are to live by with the second covenant is much stricter than the ten.

If you want to partake of the first covenant that would be your right to do, but it will not get you eternal life....    and that's my point of the entire discussion.... promoting the ten commandments is dangerous....   we should be teaching and promoting Jesus's two.   Oddly if you live by those two, you will not even want to break 9 of the ten.....   and in leading the life that Jesus requires us to live, you no longer need the Sabbath for it is a way of life, not some single day of the week

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Guest shiloh357
4 hours ago, inchrist said:

Y

 

Scripture specifically tells you

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

What we telling you, is your faith is dead.

Which James also gives you a rhetorical question

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

When you claim we no longer need to observe the 4th commandment

Can faith save you?

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

When you claim fhe phrase sabbath keepers in reality we commandment keepers upholding the law.

You are commandment breakers, youve just killed faith.

When you state there are no longer 10 commandments but 9 you have slowly just eroded faith to its death.

Faith without the law is dead.

Indeed James what does it profite to eradicate the sabbath?

 

So for the Christian who does not observe the Sabbath day, who chooses not to keep the Sabbath day, what is the eternal consequence?  When a Christian who chooses not to keep the Sabbath day dies, where does that Christian spend eternity?

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6 hours ago, Giller said:

Of course day 15 is a sabbath, but you start counting the firstfruits after the main sabbath or else you won't get the 50 days of counting accurate, to get to the day of Pentecost, which I have calculated many times, which 7 sabbaths and not 8 sabbaths must pass.

The feast of Shavuot, also known as the Feast of Weeks, which Christians recognise as Pentecost is held on the day after seven full weeks from the Day of First Fruits. Again the high priest would make a wave offering to God in the temple but this time with a sheaf of the wheat harvest which was ripe by this time.

 

Jews traditionally celebrate Shavuot on day 6 of month 3 because they count off 50 days from day 16 month 1 on the Hillel fixed Metonic calendar that uses the Julian rolling week system and most Christians today think Pentecost should be day 6 month 3 as well but originally it was always day 9 month 3 on God's Calendar. This is because of how the instruction for when Shavuot is, is interpreted:

 

Leviticus 23:15-16
15 From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD.

 

Notice how God 'bookends' the fifty day count instruction with 'count off seven full weeks' and 'up to the day after the seventh Sabbath'. This is because there are sometimes two consecutive months of 30 days that fall between Passover and Shavuot, so that Shavuot can fall either 53 or 54 days after the Feast of First Fruits. So putting the three instruction into context shows the first and most important way to make sure Shavuot is on the right day is to count off seven full weeks and to make sure this is done accurately they would count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath. This 'belt and braces' way of counting the days ensured they got the right day for Shavuot after the seventh Sabbath.

Some Christian think this verse is an Achilles heel to the Lunar-Sabbath being God's Calendar but they're not reading it as intended and it also means having to ignore dozens of verses about the Lunar Sabbath in both Old and New Testament that the Hebrews had been using for over a thousand years before the current seven day rolling week system was invented in 45 BC by Julius Caesar. They also need to ignore all the historical records about of when Hadrian and Constantine forced the Jews to not use God's Lunar-Sabbath Calendar. When put into context along with the historical background it makes perfect sense.

 

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Guest shiloh357
7 hours ago, Giller said:

Of course day 15 is a sabbath, but you start counting the firstfruits after the main sabbath or else you won't get the 50 days of counting accurate, to get to the day of Pentecost, which I have calculated many times, which 7 sabbaths and not 8 sabbaths must pass.

That is correct.  The Sadducees and Pharisees disagreed over which Sabbath was intended.  The Pharisees counted after the High Sabbath, but the Sadducees counted after the weekly Sabbath.   The Sadducean method is the correct one as you always get to day 50 on the first of the week on that method of counting. 

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Guest shiloh357
1 minute ago, inchrist said:

Youve turned this into legalism now.

Its got nothing to do with heaven or hell

But has everything to do with love.

If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; 

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; 

but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God 

A wife who loves her husband would never ask if I do this or dont do this will you divorce me. It would never be a question of her doing it to stay married to him.

Its all about pleasing God....pure love = obedience

If a wife persisted in rebelling against her husband and she never wanted to please him, and she never wanted to celebrate their anniversary when he asked her to, wouldnt that lead to a breakdown of the marriage?

True love never has an agenda,but if you state things like...... When a Christian who chooses not to keep the Sabbath day dies, where does that Christian spend eternity ..... Then you not displaying true love, you displaying a legalistic agenda.

No, you're simply not answering the question.   My question doesn't turn anything into legalism.   You and the other false teachers in this thread say that the Sabbath day observance is REQUIRED of the Christian.    My question is, what happens to the Christian in eternity if they did not keep the Sabbath day.

Are you saying that if Christians don't keep the Sabbath day, they don't love God?

 

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14 hours ago, Abdicate said:

Why do you use a Greek word εβδομάδα that does NOT exists in any original text of the New Testament? I don't judge you. I'm giving you facts you choose to ignore those facts in lieu of tradition, just like the fallen Jews. It's so odd you choose to use "Sabbath" and "Saturday" as if they're different words, but they mean the exact same day. There is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath.

NO....that is not what I am saying. I said the words for SABBATH and WEEK are similar but they are not the same. And the real facts are that the early church met on the FIRST DAY of the week, not on the Saturday Sabbath. Saturday is never called the first day of the week anywhere. 

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