Did Jesus die on the 4000th year?

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

37 minutes ago, other one said:

I believe the book of John mentions three Passovers during Jesus's ministry....    It looks to me like his ministry lasted at least two full years and probably three.

btw, when you've grown up with a step father, you relate that person as your father....   don't be so technical.

Hey I'm just putting that fact out there, no need to criticise me for telling like it is. As for the 3 Passovers that too has been explained:  

John’s record of the Jewish feasts helps to build a chronology of Jesus’ ministry:

John 2:13
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 5:1
After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4
Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.

John 7:2 + 10
2 But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, 10 he also went, not publicly, but in secret.

John 10:22
Then came the Festival of Dedication (Hanukkah) at Jerusalem. It was winter,

John 12:12-13
12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival (Passover) heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem.

Clearly John thought these were important to record but this is only two years worth of festivals, unless the second unnamed feast is taken to be a Passover as well. However, this would just be speculation and it would also not make chronological sense of the feasts as they actually occur through the Jewish religious year i.e:

Passover, Shavuot, Tabernacles, Hanukkah, Passover and so on . . .

Instead we have:

Passover, a feast, Passover, Tabernacles, Hanukkah, Passover.

If the unnamed feast was Shavuot (Pentecost) it would make more sense but the second Passover listed would still seem out of place and also does not explain why the other feasts Jesus would have had to attend over a supposed two years were not mentioned. However, the reason John 6:4 is there is simply because it was added into the texts during the early history of the New Testament and for which there exists physical evidence; A thirteenth century manuscript called Minuscule 472 housed in the Lambeth Palace library in London, has an editor’s mark next to John 6:4 indicating that there were other manuscripts that had this verse missing from them but the scribe had decided to add the verse anyway, as they also had a manuscript that included John 6:4 which was considered either older or more reliable. This manuscript is not alone, a second (fourteenth century) manuscript called Minuscule 1634, housed at Great Lavra Monastery on Mount Athos, in Greece, also has a similar editor’s note made next to verse John 6:4, indicating that other manuscripts in the copyists possession were missing John 6:4.

This discrepancy can also be traced back to the writings of the early church fathers of the first few century’s. The first recorded mention of the length of Jesus’ ministry was made by Irenaeus, Bishop of Gaul in France b.130AD d.202AD who was the first to state Jesus had gone up to Jerusalem on three separate Passovers, stating somewhat sarcastically; “To be sure all the world will agree that three Passovers are not included in a single year.” It’s not known if he was referring to John 5:1, the un-named feast, or John 6:4 (If indeed John 6:4 was even there at this time?). If it was John 5:1 then he is assuming the mentioned feast was a Passover which was just speculation and if he meant John 6:4, then this again throws up all the problems as previously mentioned. Many of the early church fathers continued to debate in favour of the one year ministry, most notably Clement Bishop of Alexandria b.150 AD d.215 AD was one of the first to counter the notion of a more than one year ministry. However, Origen Bishop of Alexandria b.184 AD d.253 AD in his book ‘Contra Celsum’, written in 248 AD stated that he was satisfied that a case could be made for a three year ministry of Jesus.

This seems to be where the error first crept into the theology of the early church, as from then on there was an ever increasing amount of debate over the length of Jesus’ ministry, which didn’t seem to be an issue before these initial remarks. But it was Eusebius b.263 AD d.339 AD Bishop of Caesarea from 313 AD to 339 AD, who perhaps promoted this theory more than anyone else. He stated that Jesus’ ministry was between three to four years long and that this was the fulfilment of the first half of Daniel’s prophetic end times seven years:

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Eusebius then suggested that the last half of the seven years was from Jesus’ death until the baptism of Cornelius the Roman solider, recorded in the book of Acts chapter 10. In his written exegesis on the book of Daniel, Eusebius suggests that the first definite Gentile believer, Cornelius, was the ultimate fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecy and suggested that this was God’s way of passing the ministry and mission that Jesus had begun, onto the Roman Catholic Church and its Bishops. His theory also diminished the role of the Jewish people, who he saw as having rejected Christianity. Most ironically and somewhat disturbingly, is that the seven year prophecy is actually describing what the Anti-Christ will do in the last seven years before Jesus returns and this last seven years is still awaiting fulfilment.

After the error had crept in and grew in acceptance, others continued to try and argue the case back for the one year ministry, such as Sulpicius Sererus who died in 410 AD. In his work ‘Historia Sacra’ he stated Jesus’ ministry was one year in length and that He was 31 years old at His crucifixion. Although not alone in voicing the one year ministry the three and a half year theory, along with Eusebius’ Roman Catholic ‘boosting’ yet unfounded theology began to be generally accepted throughout both the eastern and western halves of Roman Catholic Christendom. Although numerous writings throughout the last two thousand years have tried to put straight the dates for Jesus’ ministry, the battle between truth and tradition continues. Yet God has left us a trail of clues to help re-establish Jesus’ ministry as only being just over a year in length, thus fulfilling this prophecy:

Isaiah 61:2
to proclaim the year of the LORD’S favour.

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

6 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Thanks, but I put that info in as ancillary and isn't crucial to the timeline which only comes from the word of God. Your errors and theirs are based on faulty archaeology, which your own articles debate which is correct, and forget to ask the very basic question "what day is Passover" (I'll come back to this - maybe) and the conversion to Julian calendar. Show me via the word of God my numbers are wrong, then I'll fix it. You keep using man's supposition. Even the article you claim as showing Herod died in 1 BC came to the conclusion he died in 4 BC! Did you not finish the article? 

You must also take into account the 46th years of Herod's temple. Josephus reports that the temple started being built in 23 BC (Jewish Year 3736) and the majority of it was completed within a year and a half, making its opening 22 BC (JY 3739). 3739 + 46 years = 3785 (25 AD). 

Here's the breakdown of 22 BC:

Creation Year: 3955
Jewish Year: 3739 
Western Year: 22 BC

The complicated way:

• 194 Olympiad (OL), 4th year is year 1 BC to 1 AD47.
• 194.4 OL (1 BC to 1 AD) - 184.4 OL (year Herod is made king) = 10 Olympiads (OL)
• 10 OL * 4 = 40 years
• 40 BC + 1 for AD/BC no year "0" = 41 BC
• 41 BC - 18 (18th year of Herod started building temple) = 23 BC
• 23 BC – 1 year for its completion = 22 BC

• 22 BC + 46 = 24 AD
• Year "0" doesn't exist, 1 AD/BC is one year. 24 AD + 1 = 25 AD

The easy way:
This type of complication is why I use the Jewish calendar when crossing the 1 BC/AD year:

• 22 BC (temple open for business) = 3739 Jewish Year
• 3739 + 46 = 3785
• 3785 = 25 AD

When Jesus made it to Nazareth on a Sabbath, He entered the synagogue where He grew up (Luke 4:16) and read from the scriptures Isaiah 61:1-2, however, He stopped half way through verse two because the judgment day was not yet come. He told them concisely, Who He was, the Son of God. This was not by accident because Jesus didn't ask for the scroll, but was given to Him. (Luke 4:17)

This happened in the month of Heshvan according to the Triennial Cycle when the Haftorah (הַפְטָרָה) reading (afternoon reading of the Torah) of that passage is selected. For that year, it was 27 Heshvan 3785 (18 November 24 AD). This is fourth Sabbath of the month, which signifies that Isaiah 61:1-2 was be read. This shows too that before going to the wilderness Jesus had not yet reached His 30th birthday and the importance and accuracy of scripture by its use of "about" in "about 30 years of age" at His baptism. Then He preached in the synagogues of Galilee and went home to preach in His hometown were all prophets are first rejected, Luke 4:24. The Israeli newspaper HAARETZ even asked what happened to "Jesus' haftarah?" Basically, any quote in the New Testament of the Old Testament is removed from modern reading. Have you ever wondered why in movies and TV shows, or maybe you've experienced it yourself, that the Jews love to tell stories? Well during the time of Antiochus Epiphanies, reading the Torah was punishable by death, so they'd tell the Torah reading as a story form. That tradition continues on to today.

Jesus died before reaching His 33rd birthday. The Bible only reveals that Jesus celebrated three Passovers after this point, and on that last one, was murdered. Here's a small time table:

• 15 Tishri 3755 + 30 years = Jewish Year 3785 - Luke 3:23

• Birthday: 15 Tishri 3785 Jesus was 30
• Passover: 14 Nisan 3785 Jesus was 30 - John 2:23
• Birthday: 15 Tishri 3786 Jesus was 31
• Passover: 14 Nisan 3786 Jesus was 31 - John 6:4
• Birthday: 15 Tishri 3787 Jesus was 32
• Passover: 14 Nisan 3787 Jesus was 32 - John 11:55

14 Nisan 3787 (9 April 27 AD - Julian), Jesus Died at the age of 32 and 5 month 28 days, fulfilling Daniel 9:26, exactly 483 years 13 days from the order given to Ezra (Ezra 7:9) to rebuild the city and establish a government (Ezra 7:25) (which is different from that of Cyrus which was to rebuild only the temple), this is the year, Creation Year: 3520 Western Year: 457 BC, of the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy. The 483 years started on 1 Nisan 3304 (Mar 26, 457 BC) (Ezra 7:9)

One thread makes a tapestry not.

Well you never explained where in the Bible it says Herod died in 4BC. Lets try and deal with what the Bible does say about when Jesus started his ministry: 

Tiberius' reign was not made official till a month after Augustus death (19/8/14AD) when The Senate convened on 18 September 14AD to validate Tiberius's position as Princep and, as it had done with Augustus before, extend the powers of the position to him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius

I believe the Bible when Luke wrote: 

Luke 3:1-3
1 In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, 2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Therefore the 15th year was from 18th September 28AD to 18th September 29AD, which matches with this verse:

John 2:20
They replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 

This was said to Jesus when He cleared the temple before the first Passover of His ministry, history records Herod became king in 37 BC and Josephus records Herod began to rebuild the temple in his 18th year, which was therefore from 20 to 19 BC. Adding 46 years to this arrives at 27 to 28 AD and thus the 47th year in which this was said was from 28 to 29AD. And lastly it also ties in with this verse:

Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry.

It can be known that Jesus was born on 11th September 3BC and therefore He turned 30 on the 11th September 29AD. 

Jesus died on the 7th April 30AD after ministry that only lasted just over a year: 

http://historical-jesus.info/appb.html

Isaiah 61:2
to proclaim the year of the LORD’S favour.

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

15 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

We are both wrong... it was late and I was very tired. Forgive me. Here's what Excel has to say:

Count - Year

1    29
2    28
3    27
4    26
5    25
6    24
7    23
8    22
9    21
10    20
11    19
12    18
13    17
14    16
15    15
16    14
17    13
18    12
19    11
20    10
21    9
22    8
23    7
24    6
25    5
26    4
27    3
28    2
29    1
30    -1
31    -2
32    -3
33    -4
34    -5
 

29 to 3 BC is 32 years... Also, 7 April 30 is 16 Nisan 3790, a Friday, two days after the Passover...

No:

11th Sept 3BC = Jesus Born

2BC = Jesus is 1 years old

1BC = 2 years old 

1AD = 3 

11 AD = 13

21 AD = 23

11th Sept 28 AD = 30 years old and Jesus begins His ministry soon after this.

11th Sept 29 AD = 31 years old

7th April 30 AD = 31.5 years old  and Jesus dies:

The 7th April 30 AD was the 14th Aviv: http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?PYM=Y30M1

Friday - Saturday Sabbath is Pagan (you need the Luni-Solar Calendar to know when the Sabbaths are, a teaching for another time). 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

14 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

I did, you won't listen. I won't debate this because there are so many dates and times you must take into consideration which you don't even address. You're again relying on other's work. It took me 10 years to write my study. Read it, don't read it, but here it is http://www.abdicate.net/book.aspx 

Moving on...

You're ignoring the 3 dates that the Bible actually does give. I can't help you either. 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

3 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

There's your problem... 1 BC to 1 AD is the SAME year, only count as ONE YEAR... Excel doesn't lie, yet you go down a different rabbit trail. We were talking about the number of years from 3 BC to 29 AD, nothing more. 

Oh my God you think they are the same year! (But in your first list of years you have it correct, i.e. 1BC - 1AD). What are you saying?   

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

2 minutes ago, Abdicate said:

Don't use the Lord's name in vain. 1BC-1AD = 1 Year. YOU added it twice. Oh never mind...

Sorry about that but that is a basic fact. I am shocked you could make that mistake. However, 3 hours ago you had it correct. Why was that, another typo?  

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Abdicate said:

We are both wrong...

How true!

Why do you and When is Jesus Coming? worry about the date of Jesus' birth?  The hinge date of this Christian era is when He commenced His Ministry. He received God's Spirit at His baptism, then ministered for 3 1/2 years until His death.  Luke 3:1 is plain: that date was the 15th year of Tiberius - 29.5 AD.  Jesus continues His Ministry, Spiritually. Matthew 28:20

You both avoid my post #3, that sets out the entire perfect timeline of God for mankind.  You both may have spent a lot of time and effort on your versions, as I have too, but the proof of correct accuracy is in how the eras in mine come to the exact 1000 year periods. 

Until you have the courage and moral fortitude to address the timeline I posted, then your discussions are just wasted space. 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Keras

[ayin jade]

7 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Yep Herod died in 1BC but Tiberius' reign was not made official till a month after Augustus death (19/8/14AD) when The Senate convened on 18 September 14AD to validate Tiberius's position as Princep and, as it had done with Augustus before, extend the powers of the position to him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius

I believe the Bible when Luke wrote: 

Luke 3:1-3
1 In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene, 2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Therefore the 15th year was from 18th September 28AD to 18th September 29AD, which matches with this verse:

John 2:20
They replied, “It has taken forty six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 

This was said to Jesus when He cleared the temple before the first Passover of His ministry, history records Herod became king in 37 BC and Josephus records Herod began to rebuild the temple in his 18th year, which was therefore from 20 to 19 BC. Adding 46 years to this arrives at 27 to 28 AD and thus the 47th year in which this was said was from 28 to 29AD. And lastly it also ties in with this verse:

Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry.

It can be known that Jesus was born on 11th September 3BC and therefore He turned 30 on the 11th September 29AD. 

Jesus died on the 7th April 30AD after ministry that only lasted just over a year: 

http://historical-jesus.info/appb.html

Isaiah 61:2
to proclaim the year of the LORD’S favour.

 

 

What you claim contradicts scripture. 

According to Luke 3:1, John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar’s reign. Tiberius was appointed as co-regent with Augustus in AD 11, and 15 years later would be AD 26. Jesus began His ministry shortly thereafter at approximately the age of thirty (Luke 3:23). This gives us a basis upon which we can approximate what year Jesus began His public ministry: around AD 26.

According to John’s Gospel, Jesus attended at least three annual Feasts of Passover through the course of His ministry: one in John 2:13, another in 6:4, and then the Passover of His crucifixion in 11:55–57.

John 2:13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 6:4 And the Passover was near, a feast of the Jews.

John 11:55 And the Jews' Passover was near. And many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the Passover in order to purify themselves.

(Info obtained from gotquestions)

[Keras]

4 hours ago, ayin jade said:

According to Luke 3:1, John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar’s reign. Tiberius was appointed as co-regent with Augustus in AD 11, and 15 years later would be AD 26. Jesus began His ministry shortly thereafter at approximately the age of thirty (Luke 3:23). This gives us a basis upon which we can approximate what year Jesus began His public ministry: around AD 26.

So is GotQuestions the ultimate authority?  I totally reject that idea!

Tiberius was proclaimed Emperor AFTER Augustus's death. On August 19th 14 AD. Co-regency before that does not count.  Only those with another agenda have to include the extra 3 years for Tiberius. 

Therefore the dates of the 15th year of Tiberius are:  August 19th 29 AD to August 19th 30 AD. 

Have you bothered to look at #3 on this thread? 

[ayin jade]

17 minutes ago, Keras said:

So is GotQuestions the ultimate authority?  I totally reject that idea!

Tiberius was proclaimed Emperor AFTER Augustus's death. On August 19th 14 AD. Co-regency before that does not count.  Only those with another agenda have to include the extra 3 years for Tiberius. 

Therefore the dates of the 15th year of Tiberius are:  August 19th 29 AD to August 19th 30 AD. 

Have you bothered to look at #3 on this thread? 

No need to get snippy. 

Gotquestions is not an ultimate authority however it happens to agree with my view, and since I got some info from them (the dates) I posted my source. Others posted sources and you didnt get snippy with them.