Robert William Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 hours ago, ytLiJC said: it's not exactly so if e.g. St Paul didn't cast out the evil spirits from all those hundreds of demon-possessed people and didn't heal all those hundreds of sick people he came across, would they be delivered from the demons and illnesses?! Matthew 24:22 (Aramaic) "If those days are not cut short no one would live, but because of the chosen ones, those days will be cut short." had the Saints done evil?!, where in the Bible can you read that any Saint of God had done evil or committed unrighteousness (after he became a Saint of God)?! so if the Saints had done best things for others, hadn't They done good works?!, and if salvation couldn't be achieved by good works, why did They do all those good things for others?! James 2:12-26 (NHEB) "So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged by a law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no works? Can faith save him? And if a brother or sister is naked and in lack of daily food, and one of you tells them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled;" and yet you did not give them the things the body needs, what good is it? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in itself. Yes, a man will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder. But do you want to know, foolish man, that faith apart from works is useless? Wasn't Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness;" and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In like manner was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.", James 4:13-17 (NHEB) "Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow let us go into this city, and spend a year there, trade, and make a profit." Whereas you do not know what tomorrow will be like. What is your life? For you are a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. For you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will both live, and do this or that." But now you glory in your boasting. All such boasting is evil. To him therefore who knows to do good, and does not do it, to him it is sin." Blessings Wow, you really think you are something. Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. YHWH demands nothing less than 100% perfection, that nobody can achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 20 hours ago, Debp said: Jesus died (and rose) for all people, but not everyone will accept His gift of salvation. Debp, scripture does not teach universal Atonement, it teaches that the majority of mankind will be thrown into the eternal lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,013 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,262 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,319 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Robert William said: Debp, scripture does not teach universal Atonement, it teaches that the majority of mankind will be thrown into the eternal lake of fire. Robert, you are misunderstanding what others and I have been saying. We do not believe in universal atonement...that would mean everyone would be saved. Universalists believe that everyone will be saved....we do not believe that. Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept salvation. Therefore, not everyone will be saved. Perhaps this is a misunderstanding due to semantics. We say something and you think we are saying something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Debp said: Robert, you are misunderstanding what others and I have been saying. We do not believe in universal atonement...that would mean everyone would be saved. Universalists believe that everyone will be saved....we do not believe that. Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept salvation. Therefore, not everyone will be saved. Perhaps this is a misunderstanding due to semantics. We say something and you think we are saying something else. But Debp, correct me if I'm wrong, YOU said Jesus Atoned for ALL humans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,013 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,262 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,319 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, Robert William said: But Debp, correct me if I'm wrong, YOU said Jesus Atoned for ALL humans! Robert, I said Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept His salvation. Therefore, not everyone goes to Heaven. If people reject Christ's offer of salvation, their sins are not atoned for. What I said is different from the Universalists cult's belief of everyone going to be saved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 I might point out that many Egyptians...the 'mixed multitude'...escaped the plagues and crossed the Red Sea along with Israel but did not continue in walking in the light and truth offered. Yet the blood of the Passover Lamb availed for them...but not to salvation in their entering into Canaan. Same with the blood of Christ. It covers all: but not all will walk that narrow way of obedience and love and finally walk through the gates into the new Jerusalem...the true promise land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytLiJC Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Robert William said: Wow, you really think you are something. Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. YHWH demands nothing less than 100% perfection, that nobody can achieve. there had been and there are still 100% perfectly righteous human beings (i don't say all humans have been so perfect), but there has always been and there will always been only one 100% perfectly holy God - the difference consists in the fact that the capacity of God is zillions of times as great as the human capacity, because He is the system Administrator and Provider of life for the whole infinite universe, while humans are, first of all, users of life - of course this doesn't mean that there can't be the same quality in human beings i.e. a piece of the quality of the true God, just as there can be a tiny particle from a large gold ingot which is 24-karat so humans could be 100% perfectly righteous as human beings, but not 100% perfectly holy as God Himself (referring to the difference in capacity) - in fact, God already declared that a human being could be perfectly righteous Deuteronomy 18:13 (AKJV) "You shall be perfect with the LORD your God.", Matthew 5:48 (NET Bible) "be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Blessings Edited December 5, 2017 by ytLiJC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,364 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 5, 2017 16 hours ago, Robert William said: But Debp, correct me if I'm wrong, YOU said Jesus Atoned for ALL humans! No The Word of God claims that 1 John 2:2 (KJV) [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. John clearly makes the distinction ‘not for ours only’ (known elect) but also ‘in addition to ‘the sins of the whole world’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: No The Word of God claims that 1 John 2:2 (KJV) [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. John clearly makes the distinction ‘not for ours only’ (known elect) but also ‘in addition to ‘the sins of the whole world’ Sorry, but scripture does not teach universal salvation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 19 hours ago, Debp said: Robert, you are misunderstanding what others and I have been saying. We do not believe in universal atonement...that would mean everyone would be saved. Universalists believe that everyone will be saved....we do not believe that. Jesus died and rose for all....but not everyone will accept salvation. Therefore, not everyone will be saved. Perhaps this is a misunderstanding due to semantics. We say something and you think we are saying something else. Debp, anybody who's sins have been Atoned for can never end up in Hell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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