Ogner Posted November 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2017 59 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: Once again protect sinners was not part of my words. As for God's teachings. The OP referenced John 8. In that chapter some have learned how Jesus shows compassion to sinners. John 8:5-6 NIV They wanted to kill Jesus. That's really their goal. When they have found no reason to kill him everybody had gone home. But then they killed Jesus. And they carried Stephen forth out of the city and stoned him with stones and he died. Sinners shows no mercy before the righteous. So... do you have some compassion to them? Or the righteous men can only count on God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Ogner said: You're saying that Jesus said we can not judge who is sinner or righteous? Jesus' words John 8:15-16 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Jesus can judge on a godly level. We can not. 10 hours ago, Ogner said: Didn't God said to us that we should help the righteous men? In Matthew 10:41 Jesus say: Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. Jesus believes we can, and we should Matt 10 was directed to Jesus' appointed disciples. The verse you quoted speaks of receiving a prophet and receiving a righteous man. If said prophets and righteous men are of/from God we should recieve them. If said prophet or righteous (self-righteous) man comes from another. I would avoid. I would definitely not help. Another thing that can be taken from Matt 10 is verses 12-15 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! Jesus says go to everyone and speak the word. Those who receive it, give them what is needed from it. Those who do not, leave, and let God deal. No need to force, no need to bash, belittle or threaten. Just leave and let God deal. Just a side note on how God can and will handle what he wants and needs to. Man is not required. Man does his part and God does the rest. 9 hours ago, Ogner said: They wanted to kill Jesus. That's really their goal. When they have found no reason to kill him everybody had gone home. So we can agree that these individuals were sinners, right? So Jesus showed compassion not only to the adulterous woman. He also, knowing that these individuals were sinners, gave them a chance to reflect on themselves instead of having God take them out right then and there. I'm not sure where it says they wanted to kill him. That gets lost in translation. They did want to find fault in him as they found fault in the adulterous woman. Here is where I say Man can not judge who is sinner or not. They saw this woman as sinner. They saw Jesus as sinner. Yet they did not see that they themselves were sinners. At least not until Jesus pointed it out and they heard it from God. John 8:7-9 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 9 hours ago, Ogner said: But then they killed Jesus. And they carried Stephen forth out of the city and stoned him with stones and he died. I don't know if these were the same exact men. There were many Pharisees and scribes. Some were saved. Example Paul/Saul. Some most likely weren't. I can not say. 9 hours ago, Ogner said: Sinners shows no mercy before the righteous. Only Man I know that is sinless is/was Jesus. Only Man I know that is righteous is/was Jesus. Man did not and still does not show mercy before the righteous. 9 hours ago, Ogner said: So... do you have some compassion to them? Yes, I do. Just as I would want Jesus to have compassion with me. Especially since I am as much of a sinner as they are. I try my best to help the Righteous Jesus by speaking and living in his likeness. I fail repeatedly and daily but Jesus' compassion brings me to another day to try, try again. 9 hours ago, Ogner said: Or the righteous men can only count on God? All Men/Man should only count on God. They however have free will to count on who they please. My bet, will always be God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted November 8, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2017 On 05.11.2017 at 11:25 PM, notsolostsoul said: Jesus' words John 8:15-16 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Jesus can judge on a godly level. We can not. Matt 10 was directed to Jesus' appointed disciples. The verse you quoted speaks of receiving a prophet and receiving a righteous man. If said prophets and righteous men are of/from God we should recieve them. If said prophet or righteous (self-righteous) man comes from another. I would avoid. I would definitely not help. Another thing that can be taken from Matt 10 is verses 12-15 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! Jesus says go to everyone and speak the word. Those who receive it, give them what is needed from it. Those who do not, leave, and let God deal. No need to force, no need to bash, belittle or threaten. Just leave and let God deal. Just a side note on how God can and will handle what he wants and needs to. Man is not required. Man does his part and God does the rest. So we can agree that these individuals were sinners, right? So Jesus showed compassion not only to the adulterous woman. He also, knowing that these individuals were sinners, gave them a chance to reflect on themselves instead of having God take them out right then and there. I'm not sure where it says they wanted to kill him. That gets lost in translation. They did want to find fault in him as they found fault in the adulterous woman. Here is where I say Man can not judge who is sinner or not. They saw this woman as sinner. They saw Jesus as sinner. Yet they did not see that they themselves were sinners. At least not until Jesus pointed it out and they heard it from God. John 8:7-9 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. I don't know if these were the same exact men. There were many Pharisees and scribes. Some were saved. Example Paul/Saul. Some most likely weren't. I can not say. Only Man I know that is sinless is/was Jesus. Only Man I know that is righteous is/was Jesus. Man did not and still does not show mercy before the righteous. Yes, I do. Just as I would want Jesus to have compassion with me. Especially since I am as much of a sinner as they are. I try my best to help the Righteous Jesus by speaking and living in his likeness. I fail repeatedly and daily but Jesus' compassion brings me to another day to try, try again. All Men/Man should only count on God. They however have free will to count on who they please. My bet, will always be God. If you want to help sinners you may do nothing but just to have compassion. It's easy to do, especially if you is sinner too. And it's hard to help a righteous person because that requires an effort. People choose the paths that grant them the greatest rewards for the least amount of effort. But Jesus promised to give same reward for your help to a righteous person or prophet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 8, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Ogner said: If you want to help sinners you may do nothing but just to have compassion. It's easy to do, especially if you is sinner too. But Jesus promised to give same reward for your help to a righteous person or prophet. We are all sinners. Man can't judge righteousness, meaning his thoughts of righteousness are not what GOD views as righteous. To look down upon or treat others as less than yourself because you see them as a sinner. That is not Christ like. Luke 18:9-14 ESV / 235 helpful votes He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ .. For me no man is any less of a sinner as myself and God is the only one you can judge my righteousness or anyone elses. Beware self righteousness or idolatry to others. Only God!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted November 8, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2017 12 hours ago, notsolostsoul said: We are all sinners. Man can't judge righteousness, meaning his thoughts of righteousness are not what GOD views as righteous. To look down upon or treat others as less than yourself because you see them as a sinner. That is not Christ like. Luke 18:9-14 ESV / 235 helpful votes He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ .. For me no man is any less of a sinner as myself and God is the only one you can judge my righteousness or anyone elses. Beware self righteousness or idolatry to others. Only God!!!! I'm not talking about judge a sinner or a righteous person, just about Jesus's promise to give same reward for your help to a righteous person or prophet. You said that for you no man is any less of a sinner as you. But may be do you know some man who is better than you - to carry out will of God? Or for you no one is better than you because no man is any less of a sinner as you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 9, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2017 12 hours ago, Ogner said: Or for you no one is better than you because no man is any less of a sinner as you? This was what I said: On Wednesday, November 08, 2017 at 12:02 AM, notsolostsoul said: For me no man is any less of a sinner as myself and God is the only one you can judge my righteousness or anyone elses. I am not saying any Man is more nor less than me. My trust goes into God when it comes to judging righteousness. Whether me or others. A man may seem righteous from outside opinion or view but only God will know if he truly is righteous. So for me I trust God. I live to the best of my ability as he wants me to. I help where he wants me to. So I help fellow sinners (which is all of us). I leave his judgement to him (God). I am not qualified nor authorized to do what God so perfectly does. I represent him but I am not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 On 09.11.2017 at 8:22 AM, notsolostsoul said: This was what I said: I am not saying any Man is more nor less than me. My trust goes into God when it comes to judging righteousness. Whether me or others. A man may seem righteous from outside opinion or view but only God will know if he truly is righteous. So for me I trust God. I live to the best of my ability as he wants me to. I help where he wants me to. So I help fellow sinners (which is all of us). I leave his judgement to him (God). I am not qualified nor authorized to do what God so perfectly does. I represent him but I am not him. So for you no one is better than you - to carry out will of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ogner said: So for you no one is better than you - to carry out will of God No. No. No. No... No, that is not what I am saying at all. I am saying I am equal to every other Man on earth. God can use any of us to carry out his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogner Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 562 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 268 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 2 hours ago, notsolostsoul said: No. No. No. No... No, that is not what I am saying at all. I am saying I am equal to every other Man on earth. God can use any of us to carry out his will. If you is equal to every other Man on earth this means for you no one is better than you, isn't it? Is that logical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted November 11, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ogner said: If you is equal to every other Man on earth this means for you no one is better than you, isn't it? Is that logical? Speaking logically. It Depends on what your definition of better is and where you are applying it. Ex. If you are speaking about a doctor being better than me at surgey. Then yes, if he is a surgeon he is better than me to perform surgeries. If you are trying to say that a Man well versed in scripture is better me in doing the will of God, I would have to say not necessarily. As Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees, just because you know the word and can practice it, it does not make you righteous. If you lack the Spirit/heart you are of no good to God's will. (I am paraphrasing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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