Salvation Issues OSAS Lordship Salvation etc.

[frienduff thaylorde]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I'll admit for most of my life I held to the 'once saved always saved' theology. Many bright academics, scholars, teachers and even my Pastor hold to that. A debate can be made that you can not be unborn, or accepting a free gift by faith can not be taken back. On the other side of the question, there seems to be just as many creditable academics and scholars whom disagree. 

I've noticed in a number of Salvation biblical passages, the conditional word "IF" is applied, leading me to believe Salvation is conditional? So the once firm idea I had of Salvation being permanent upon acceptance of the free gift from God, through the blood of Jesus Christ dying on the cross, leads me to question OSAS?

It appears for every biblical verse in support for OSAS, there's a corresponding verse that has the conditional 'IF'. So, at this juncture of my knowledge of conditional Salvation, I really don't know. I do know that with the Lord's help and His forgiveness for my sins, I'll continue to try and walk the best I can following Jesus' commands and examples and follow the Lord the rest of my days. It's so comforting now, knowing that when I go to bed at night and my heart stops beating while I'm asleep, I have comfort and no more fear of where I'll be spending eternity. Makes for a good nights sleep...

EXACTLY.   IF you don't continue in me....................

IF , any loves mother or father MORE than me he cannot be my desciple

IF

IF

 IF is all over the place.   

[enoob57]

12 hours ago, enoob57 said:

If spiritual realities do not go past the manipulation of created things unto the place of faith only upon God and His Will , given through His Word, then this type of belief will perish with those created things... but those of us who have gained in the faith and sanctification of the washing of the Word know this in daily doing... My faith has me before The Lord Jesus looking into His face with full reliance on what He has done to make me acceptable to enter into The Fathers Presence!  Love, Steven

 

[Wayne222]

I think you can be a true child of God and believe either way. One might believe you can lose salvation or one can believe you can never lose it and still be in the faith. But I hold to once not of God you will not lose it. If you leave the faith I don't think you had the holy spirit in you. And you were never seal by the holy spirit. But we are warn to stay in the faith. Those who are born again will listen. God gives us warnings because Satan will try to over throw your faith. We warn our children to not walk against the red light. God warns us too. But to lose salvation once saved seems like God did not correct someone enough. He says every sombre accepts he corrects.

[Sower]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

The onus  of  preservation unto salvation is not on the sheep but on the Shepherd.

It is not a matter of how hard we hold on to Him but a matter of Him holding on to us.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
(John 10:27-29)
 

 

 How hard is this to understand, my seven year old grandson understands it.   It dosen't get any plainer.

[Sower]

Just now, Yowm said:

A 7 yr. old eh? That's probably our problem...

 

Yea, what happened to our childlike faith. We've grown too cynical. The verse is too simple. But what could be more profound?

[Neighbor]

1 Corinthians 15:1-2English Standard Version (ESV)

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. From  commentaries  on this couple of verses I tend to find I do gain from one more than perhaps some others, for the historical setting  described  which lends credibility to  the commentary itself. The setting mainly being  among a people that thought the body to be a prison for the soul, and thus they would find a bodily resurrection repugnant. See: http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-151f/ Most other commentaries that I see tend to take 1-11 as a whole and do not isolate just 1 and 2. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Neighbor

[Sower]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

There seems to be a subtle shift from trusting the Lord to trusting one's own keeping abilities, one's own faithfulness, one's own endurance etc. etc.

Surely your not aahh, implying,  aahh, .........works?

[Sower]

12 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Well, more of a subtle and slow turning from trusting in Jesus towards trusting in self.

I was a believer for about a year before I understood the word enough to grasp that, He not only came down from glory to submit to crucifixion for me, but He would never leave me nor forsake me. I was His forever.  Such a overwhelming peace.  I ain't gotta do any more, now I just wanna do.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

The onus  of  preservation unto salvation is not on the sheep but on the Shepherd.

The Shepherd does not have any onus to hold onto any Sheep. 

If he did have a duty to do that, then he can be accused of not doing his duty when he lost one of his sheep to the word, or to Hell if one of his sheep reach the point to renounce their faith in him. 

But because of the way he made Salvation not only the Devil, but no one else can take anyone of his own , the believer in him, away from him at time of death. 

Jesus died for all mankind, so that does not include the devil..

But do not be surprize if you hear something to the contrary. 

Yes the Devil and anyone else could take JESUS SHEEP away from him. 

Let's make that simple, during the life here on earth the Devil, and anyone else , can take Jesus sheep away from him, even the sheep on their own can walk away from Jesus. 

By that statement, I did not mean to stop believing in Jesus, and become atheist or something else, and I did not say communist , because you can believe in Jesus and still be communist , or as a matter of fact Catholic. 

But the Devil and other (agencies), can take the sheep of Jesus away from him to do their will, but they cannot take the sheep of Jesus away from him, at the time of their death. 

If at time of death the sheep is found with faith in Jesus Christ. It is in his name , in his righteousness, in his propritiation, in his work who put their sins upon himself, and received the punishment for their sins. 

They are Saved, because  Jesus work.

The love of Jesus who died for us, and this love casts away all fear for those who understand it. But not everyone would understand that, but thanks to God that whether we understand that or not we are Saved,  because Jesus who is the ultimate Judge of all, understands that we are Saved in his name. 

We have obey him to believe in him, but we sometimes and more often for others, we disobey him the way we contact our lifes, and we listen more to the devil or others, or even to our desires than to listen to him. And we are stuborn in our ways. 

 

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

 

 

 

[Heleadethme]

10 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

I think you can be a true child of God and believe either way. One might believe you can lose salvation or one can believe you can never lose it and still be in the faith. But I hold to once not of God you will not lose it. If you leave the faith I don't think you had the holy spirit in you. And you were never seal by the holy spirit. But we are warn to stay in the faith. Those who are born again will listen. God gives us warnings because Satan will try to over throw your faith. We warn our children to not walk against the red light. God warns us too. But to lose salvation once saved seems like God did not correct someone enough. He says every sombre accepts he corrects.

"Satan will try to overthrow your faith"......yes, because it IS possible for people to lose their faith so that is why he does try and succeeds with some.  Correction can come from the Lord but it depends on the person whether they rebel against it or not.  That no one can snatch us from God's hand is talking about the will of other people or the devil.....it means no one can by any act of THEIR will make us lose our salvation......but this doesn't nullify that the potential to fall away still exists due to a person's OWN will and sin.  We're in a real war with the possibility of real spiritual casualties and need to stay sober and alert and watchful......run the race so as to win it.  This is why Jesus said to go into all the world and make DISCIPLES, not just converts.....because even the devil believes and trembles.

Anyone who thinks that it doesn't matter what a Christian does or believes or how we live we are going to be saved no matter what is on a slippery slope to believing that God is going to save all people regardless of what or who they believe in or how they live....which is universalism and interfaith ecumenicalism.....that's the logical conclusion of believing that lie.  But the bible admonishes that we have to continue in Christ, and remain in Him, endure to the end, hold our confidence fast to the end....etc....there are so many admonishments and warnings....even the parable of the 5 wise and 5 unwise virgins is a warning and admonishment.  I really believe this is why the church has fallen asleep and most of it is falling away......because of the very mentality of once saved always saved and not taking the fight of faith seriously enough, the church became complacent and started to sit on its laurels.