Salvation Issues OSAS Lordship Salvation etc.

[Neighbor]

Dear closest friend it will also help if you will attempt to reconcile your statement with the Bible passages below:

From a longer detailed declaration to the church at Rome comes Romans 8 and within what we now call  Romans 8 ( of that  letter from Paul ) is the following:  

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.  Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,“For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,  nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Also, from John 6: "

 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.  But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.  All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.  For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”  They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”  Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.  It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.  I am the bread of life.  Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.  I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, Yowm said:

There seems to be a subtle shift from trusting the Lord to trusting one's own keeping abilities, one's own faithfulness, one's own endurance etc. etc.

And perhaps not so subtle though it's author is crafty.  It is also at the core of the difference between the stand of the adherents of Arminianism and  contrasting Calvinism is it not? With the Arminian-ist seeing God as their helper their enabler, and the Calvinist seeing God as their only hope to escape their own complete depravity. Oh Oh now I've gone and done it, derailed the thought of the moment, but the thread title invites  all such discourse so, game on- 

[Dennis1209]

Personally speaking, I'm not certain about OSAS, due to the conditional word "IF" used in a number of Salvation scriptures, but I would most certainly like to be. The prodigal son comes to mind in support of OSAS. One of the most difficult chapters in the Bible for me to understand is Hebrews 6:. Researching commentaries, scholars, academics, and well respected Bible teachers on this chapter, many readily admit they're not sure of the contextual meaning of Hebrews Chapter 6: Anyone think they can adequately explain the meaning pertaining to Salvation?

[Sower]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The Shepherd does not have any onus to hold onto any Sheep. 

If he did have a duty to do that, then he can be accused of not doing his duty when he lost one of his sheep to the word, or to Hell if one of his sheep reach the point to renounce their faith in him. 

But because of the way he made Salvation not only the Devil, but no one else can take anyone of his own , the believer in him, away from him at time of death. 

Jesus died for all mankind, so that does not include the devil..

But do not be surprize if you hear something to the contrary. 

Yes the Devil and anyone else could take JESUS SHEEP away from him. 

Let's make that simple, during the life here on earth the Devil, and anyone else , can take Jesus sheep away from him, even the sheep on their own can walk away from Jesus. 

By that statement, I did not mean to stop believing in Jesus, and become atheist or something else, and I did not say communist , because you can believe in Jesus and still be communist , or as a matter of fact Catholic. 

But the Devil and other (agencies), can take the sheep of Jesus away from him to do their will, but they cannot take the sheep of Jesus away from him, at the time of their death. 

If at time of death the sheep is found with faith in Jesus Christ. It is in his name , in his righteousness, in his propritiation, in his work who put their sins upon himself, and received the punishment for their sins. 

They are Saved, because  Jesus work.

The love of Jesus who died for us, and this love casts away all fear for those who understand it. But not everyone would understand that, but thanks to God that whether we understand that or not we are Saved,  because Jesus who is the ultimate Judge of all, understands that we are Saved in his name. 

We have obey him to believe in him, but we sometimes and more often for others, we disobey him the way we contact our lifes, and we listen more to the devil or others, or even to our desires than to listen to him. And we are stuborn in our ways. 

 

 

1Jn_1:5  This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

What that means is God does not say untruths. He does not/can not lie. His word is true. You have to accept that. The interpretation of the scripture here is not difficult, nor misleading. What it means is what it says.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
(John 10:27-29)

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

 

Yowm, Everything I have posted is from scriptures, even from the scriptures you have posted , and our dear freind "Neighbour" have posted. 

Hope that you carefully read the others posts.

If something you thing is not from scripture, point it out, so does not look you have judge the person. 

Jesus is our Saviour, in this life people believe in Jesus Christ, why do you meddle with them, they are not your deacons or your elders in your church, or even members in your church. 

Jesus is our Savior, that's why we blame him all the time, for the way the world is, even for what we do in general,  because we asked him to change things (thinking that we are his Lord, and can tell him what to do),  and he did not do it. 

We still hate, are jealous and are in this earth, and we are not alone here on this earth. 

Please show a scripture that corrects. 

And I only responded to your opinions. 

[Your closest friendnt]

39 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Dear closest friend it will also help if you will attempt to reconcile your statement with the Bible passages below:

From a longer detailed declaration to the church at Rome comes Romans 8 and within what we now call  Romans 8 ( of that  letter from Paul ) is the following:  

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.  Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,“For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,  nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Also, from John 6: "

 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.  But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.  All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.  For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”  They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”  Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.  No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.  It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father.  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.  I am the bread of life.  Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.  I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

 

 

 

Thank you for your kind aproch. 

In my post earlier I had all those scriptures in mind and I have a bible, and thank for posting them for me, from the phone I need to type them, and not just copy and paste. 

And this is one of the problems . 

Copy and paste, but perhaps not criticaly reading the scriptures. 

In general , thank you for posting, and not letting bulling silencing your voice.  

God bless

[Justin Adams]

32 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

And perhaps not so subtle though it's author is crafty.  It is also at the core of the difference between the stand of the adherents of Arminianism and  contrasting Calvinism is it not? With the Arminian-ist seeing God as their helper their enabler, and the Calvinist seeing God as their only hope to escape their own complete depravity. Oh Oh now I've gone and done it, derailed the thought of the moment, but the thread title invites  all such discourse so, game on- 

Peace:

We are such silly children! To suppose we can encapsulate Yeshua's life, death and resurrection in either the Calvinist or Armenian world views is very limiting. HIS-story is so complex, yet so pointed and so simple.
As Yeshua said, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

Every time a new thought's expression crosses the Christian threshold out come the guns, the grenades and sometimes the WMDs.

The Lord God gave us so many scriptures, both in and out of 'the canons' (of which there are at least three).

So why do we have to boil it all down to some equation or number of steps that one must do, or not do or contemplate, or balance on the head of a pin?

Labels are for soup cans! Not people or their beliefs. There are some few things that Yeshua said we should do, granted. But I see that the one He said most specifically; 'If you Love Me keep My Commandments', has the larger number of detractors and arguments AGAINST it than almost all the others put together!

[frienduff thaylorde]

For IF after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVOIR

JESUS CHRIST , they are Again entangled theirin,  and overcome , the latter END is worse with them than the beginning

For it had been better for them , not to have known the way of Righteousness, THAT MEANS THEY KNEW IT  THEY KNEW IT,

than after they HAVE KNOWN < HAVE KNOWN< HAVE KNOWN IT, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

JESUS had said IT was better to have never have known Him as well.  PETER paid attention.

Tis why JAMES who had paid attention would say..................IF any of YOU , BELIEVERS, YOU BELIEVERS does ERR from the TRUTH

let him that CONVERTS the sinner from the error of his ways , HE HAS SAVEED A SOUL FROM CERTAIN DEATH.

Paul   ,   IT is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED, ONCE ENLIGHTEND , ONCE ENLIGHTENED

and have tasted of the heavenly GIFT, JESUS, and were MADE MADE MADE partakers of the HOLY HOLY HOLY GHOST

and have tasted the GOOD WORD of GOD , and the POWERS of the WORLD TO COME

IF they shall  F   A   L   L        A   W   A   Y   , to renew them again unto repentance.    THAT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN MASSIVELY .

WE in the biggest FALLING AWAY I have ever seen.  

Now a word from JESUS.............if  a man CONTINUES NOT in me he is cast forth.

and now a word from paul.   I keep my body under subjection , lest even after I have preached to many,  I be CAST OUT.

now more from peter

Brethen IF you DO THESE THINGS you shall NEVER FALL

another word from PETER WHO KNEW JESUS, 

you therefore , BELOVED, seeing you know these things  before,  BEWARE beware , beware, lest you also

 being led away with the Error of the wicked, FALL FROM YOUR OWN Steadfastness

paul again.    HEY CHURCH , behold both the goodness and severity of GOD,  on them which fell , Severity , but toward the goodness

, IF , IF, IF thou continue in HIS GOODNESS , otherwise thou also will be CUT OFF.

Now a word from JESUS,    if a branch in me does not bear good fruit it is cut OFF.....................

CONTINUE IN HIM people OR YOU WILL BE CAST OUT AND BURNED in a lake of fire at your end .

Obey the Spirit , NOT the flesh .    amen.    IT is HE is us working that which is well pleasing in his sight,  CONTINUE daily to OBEY HIS SPIRIT and deny the flesh.  amen.

[Neighbor]

 I guess I should declare that I am firmly in the camp of the Freewill Calvinists.   I have freewill, am part of creation fallen, and  of what God has foreknown and predestined within His sovereignty over all matters of His creation. I, being matter and spirit am under His sovereign rule, do choose to accept that, because He has made it so.

Anyway with that declaration back to the thread.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

. double posted

Edited November 1, 2017 by Neighbor