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14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If you apply that logic, then you run into a huge problem because the ESV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NLT, etc.  don't agree with each other in various places and then you have the problem with missing verses, as I have pointed out before.  God is not the author of confusion.  God is not behind various translations that don't say the same thing because that leads to confusion.  

Assuming all of that is true, it still does not follow that the KJV is God's choice. 

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They make a career out of studying it and translating it, but don't believe a word it says and that makes a difference. 

Why does that make a difference?   If the goal of biblical translation is to choose the best English word for the word that was used, then all that matters is the skill to do that.  A "devout" person translating the Bible has an already preconceived notion of what it should say, which could cloud their judgement, they are only human after all. 

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6 hours ago, Running Gator said:

was God not capable of doing so for more than one English Bible?

Without disagreeing with the previous posts/ good reasons for KJV,

remember where a person LOOKS, who a person TRUSTS, and who they RELY ON (who they have FAITH IN,

is most important.

IF a person is taught by JESUS,  they can use any translation and JESUS will still tell them the TRUTH: (ALWAYS) ,  YAHWEH is the ONE WHO IS ABLE to remove the veil (the veil that prevents understanding), 

ONE WHO IS ABLE to GRANT UNDERSTANDING and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES for little children.

ONE WHO IS ABLE to hide the TRUTH, to hide everything concerning SALVATION, and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES, for those HE says HE does in HIS WORD.

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1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Without disagreeing with the previous posts/ good reasons for KJV,

remember where a person LOOKS, who a person TRUSTS, and who they RELY ON (who they have FAITH IN,

is most important.

IF a person is taught by JESUS,  they can use any translation and JESUS will still tell them the TRUTH: (ALWAYS) ,  YAHWEH is the ONE WHO IS ABLE to remove the veil (the veil that prevents understanding), 

ONE WHO IS ABLE to GRANT UNDERSTANDING and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES for little children.

ONE WHO IS ABLE to hide the TRUTH, to hide everything concerning SALVATION, and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES, for those HE says HE does in HIS WORD.

I agree 100%.  There is nothing in the ESV that changes or removes or adds any theology that is also in the KJV.

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9 hours ago, Running Gator said:

Assuming all of that is true, it still does not follow that the KJV is God's choice.

Who said it was "God's choice?"   That is an inaccurate and rather dumbed down approach to what was actually said.

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Why does that make a difference?   If the goal of biblical translation is to choose the best English word for the word that was used, then all that matters is the skill to do that.  A "devout" person translating the Bible has an already preconceived notion of what it should say, which could cloud their judgement, they are only human after all. 

It makes a huge difference.  It makes a difference because of not all translations are based on finding the correct word.   There is a concept known as dynamic equivalence that is used a lot.  Dynamic equivalence is not about choosing the correct word, but rather communicating the "idea" or "concept" of a passage.   Depending on your theology, the idea or concept can vary, and thus whether one is a believer or not  will definitely impact the text.

And again, the very fact that the modern translations don't agree with each other is problematic for the assumption that modern translations are more accurate.  If they have points of variance, then which one is right?    This is not just some book; it's God's Word and words are containers of thought and in this case, theology.  That won't matter for people who don't really have a high view of the Bible and don't really care.   But for those who reverence the Bible as God's Word, it matters a lot.   When you view the Bible as God's Word and God's words, then you realize you are communicating HIS thoughts and not merely words on a page.

The theology of Westcott and Hort had a big impact on the Greek manuscript they created.   And not only that, but there are a plethora of modern translations made by a single person like Moffat, Webster, Weymouth, David Stern's "Complete Jewish Bible" that pretty much reflect their own theology.

The difference between modern translations and the KJV translators is seen first in the methods used, and in the integrity of the text.  The 54 men who translated the KJV were working in Cambridge, Oxford, and Westminster and were the preeminent Christian scholars of their day.    Each school assigned different a third  of the Bible to translate.   And in each school, each man was given his portion of that section.   His work was critiqued by his colleagues in his school until that school's section  was complete and then each school critiqued the work of the other three schools.  It was a very complicated process. But it was designed to prevent, as much as possible, a person's theology from impacting their translation.

When you look at the KJV you notice things like the italicized words.  Those words are put there in italics to communicate the fact that they are meant to help smooth out the translation and to help give the sense of the verse where there is not exact translation possible.  It would have been easy to not italicize those words, but the KJV translators were demonstrating their integrity by indicating to the reader that those words  were their best and most honest attempt to communicate the verse when an exact translation was not possible.    They avoided inserting their theology into the text in order to preserve the purity of the text.

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9 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Without disagreeing with the previous posts/ good reasons for KJV,

remember where a person LOOKS, who a person TRUSTS, and who they RELY ON (who they have FAITH IN,

is most important.

IF a person is taught by JESUS,  they can use any translation and JESUS will still tell them the TRUTH: (ALWAYS) ,  YAHWEH is the ONE WHO IS ABLE to remove the veil (the veil that prevents understanding), 

ONE WHO IS ABLE to GRANT UNDERSTANDING and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES for little children.

ONE WHO IS ABLE to hide the TRUTH, to hide everything concerning SALVATION, and with GREAT PLEASURE DOES, for those HE says HE does in HIS WORD.

That is not true these days and is kind of naive.

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On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:10 PM, Running Gator said:

It is called biblehub.com.  Type in a verse and you get 20 (or thereabouts) different translations.  Great tool in discussions like this one. 

There you are.  That is translation shopping without having to exert a lot of energy.  

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