Kevinb Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 4 hours ago, enoob57 said: once one studies to find God in His Word they understand that demanding proof through sensual perceptions is foolishness... His Word 'IS' sufficient to know that God 'IS'... Blind faith. Fine if that is sufficient for you. I need evidence.. something that's demonstrable.. falsifiable. Faith gets humans to the 100s of gods. God claims are true coz the bible says? The quran is true coz the quran says. Harry potter is true coz Harry potter says. What is needed if you truly care about what is true is to prove it and causation in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, HAZARD said: 7 hours ago, Kevinb said: Assertion.. please demonstrate God did it which should be easy if it's true. Can you demonstrate He didn't? This is a shifting of the burden of proof. Nor can you not prove I don't have invisible pixies in my garden. If I made that claim it's not true till you disprove it. If I make such a claim I must prove it. So theists of all denominations and creeds make God claims they take on a burden of proof. Edited December 11, 2017 by Kevinb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Kevinb said: Blind faith. Fine if that is sufficient for you. I need evidence.. something that's demonstrable.. falsifiable. Faith gets humans to the 100s of gods. God claims are true coz the bible says? The quran is true coz the quran says. Harry potter is true coz Harry potter says. What is needed if you truly care about what is true is to prove it and causation in reality. As far as blind faith~ not at all... Several hundred witness that Jesus came back from the dead is not enough for you? It's your funeral! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Kevinb said: This is a shifting of the burden of proof. Nor can you not prove I don't have invisible pixies in my garden. If I made that claim it's not true till you disprove it. If I make such a claim I must prove it. So theists of all denominations and creeds make God claims they take on a burden of proof. God has proved through Scripture then through life in His people who have come to Him... until you cease being god yourself you will not see truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Kevinb said: Blind faith. Fine if that is sufficient for you. I need evidence.. something that's demonstrable.. falsifiable. Faith gets humans to the 100s of gods. God claims are true coz the bible says? The quran is true coz the quran says. Harry potter is true coz Harry potter says. What is needed if you truly care about what is true is to prove it and causation in reality. I also wish to tell you this because there is only One God there is only One Way to Him and that would be the path He Himself has designed... If one in their own being will humble themselves to the point where they realize that the infinite exists by the witness of this place, even though this place ends, that heart is ready to search for The Infinite God... 'they that search' have this promise by Him Jeremiah 29:11 (KJV) [11] For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. [12] Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. [13] And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Where you are hung up is that you, a created being, demand of God, Who has never had a created beginning... >how He should come to you< to satisfy your satisfaction of proof that He 'IS'... My question then would be- How could He be God and remain in subjection to you? You see you ask God to cease being God so that you can take His place by ruling... how do you think that will work out? There 'IS' only One Creator God existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit forever undone as Himself... I suggest you get over yourself as we who believe have done and search for Him with all your heart... He 'IS' worth finding as the perfect peace results in such! Love, Steven 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, enoob57 said: As far as blind faith~ not at all... Several hundred witness that Jesus came back from the dead is not enough for you? It's your funeral! Really several hundred? Names? The bible is true coz it's in the bible again. The quran is true coz it's in the quran and so on. In the 1917 famously a large crowd claimed the sun moved about as below https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun You seem to be citing the arguement from ad populum logical fallacy amongst other fallacies like the arguemmt from authority fallacy with a sprinkling of circular reasoning. Unless you actually care about truth and co oberating claims to be consistent you'd have to accept everything unsubstantiated. Additionally quoting bible verses doesn't help... if you'd been born and indoctrinated into some other religion you'd be quoting those verses. Edited December 11, 2017 by Kevinb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, Kevinb said: Really several hundred? Names? The bible is true coz it's in the bible again. The quran is true coz it's in the quran and so on. In the 1917 famously a large crowd claimed the sun moved about as below https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun You seem to be citing the arguement from ad populum logical fallacy amongst other fallacies like the arguemmt from authority fallacy with a sprinkling of circular reasoning. Unless you actually care about truth and co oberating claims to be consistent you'd have to accept everything unsubstantiated. Additionally quoting bible verses doesn't help... if you'd been born and indoctrinated into some other religion you'd be quoting those verses. I know in your own mind, you being justified by your own reason, say there is no way to find God but that is not true ... We have, who have come to Jesus, and can show you the path in The Bible... you see the path begins with God, remains with God and ends with God. This is how we who are Born of God by the work of His Son Jesus know Him and are able also to lead you to Him 'if you are willing' Remember the humble part as you can never be god and see God at the same time .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, Kevinb said: You seem to be citing the arguement from ad populum logical fallacy amongst other fallacies like the arguemmt from authority fallacy with a sprinkling of circular reasoning. People who claim the Scripture (Bible Genesis- Revelation) is circular have never read the Bible: The Bible begins with the creation by The God Who has never had beginning and tells us all things pertaining to life and Who God 'IS' and who we are... then it takes us all the way to an eternity without end... there is nothing about circular reasoning within it! You see The bible 'IS' God's Word and as it is examined by perfect reason it passes as such without begin and end in limitless resource. You see only a book ... open the pages and seek God within it and you will find what you say does not exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevinb Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Seeker Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 423 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/18/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 28 minutes ago, enoob57 said: We have, who have come to Jesus, and can show you the path in The Bible... you see the path begins with God, remains with God and ends with God. This is how we who are Born of God by the work of His Son Jesus know Him and are able also to lead you to Him 'if you are willing' Remember the humble part as you can never be god and see God at the same time .... The path begins with just accepting the claim. You just do this with other claims? The path begins with a rational evaluation of evidence.. building theory.. testing it...is it falsifiable and so on. I see a book that's built on translations and copies of copies.. that's immoral.. that contradicts scientific understanding.. contradicts itself..that's also cobbled from myths and commandments that pre date it from other cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted December 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) I suggest you hold your breath until you meet God and see for yourself... (that is supposed to be funny) Edited December 11, 2017 by Justin Adams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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