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Two very simple questions


Shilohsfoal

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What a waste of time!

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44 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

 and others hereYour opinion Keras, your opinion. Not something I hold in high regards though unless you can provide with scripture.

I provided over 100 scriptures as requested. Instead of addressing them in any normal sort of fashion, you merely dismissed the lot by saying they are not a CME, just a fire.  Tell us please what could cause this fire, such as is described by the prophets. 

Your denials of Bible truths is a indictment against you.  And your unpleasant remarks to me and to others here, also shows a seriously bad attitude. 

Edited by Keras
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On 11/6/2017 at 4:21 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

#1 Are the 144,000 israelites sealed before or after the stars of heaven fall unto the earth?

 

On 11/6/2017 at 4:33 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

(#2) Did Jesus say the stars of heaven would fall unto the earth before or after the tribulation?

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

That's an interesting set of questions, Shilohsfoal. Very sly and intuitive! Tricky! 

Of course, the 144,000 Israeliym are said to be sealed AFTER the stars of heaven fall unto the earth (Rev. 6:13 and Rev. 7:2-8), and Yeshua` said "immediately AFTER the tribulation ... the stars shall fall from heaven" (Matt. 24:29; Mark 13:24-25).

I have no problem with it since I believe we're already in the 2000-year tribulation, but I'm sure others shall have a problem!

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On 11/6/2017 at 7:00 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shilohsfoal,

I believe the 144,000 Israelites will be sealed at the beginning of the Tribulation. (Rev. 7 is a parenthesis. ie things that happen from the beginning to the end of the tribulation. 144,000 at the beginning and the great multitude in the great trib. - second half of the trib.)

The `stars of heaven falling to earth,` I believe come at the end of the tribulation. (Rev. 6: 12 - 17 indicates when the Lord is about to come.)

regards, Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

LOL! Very contradictory of you! So, you're saying that Revelation 7 comes BEFORE Revelation 6?

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On 11/6/2017 at 8:41 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

The point of this thread is the 144,000 are sealed after the tribulation.They have tribulation.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Well, of COURSE they do! They've been having "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure") put on them for almost 2,000 years now!

Matthew 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Daniel 9:26-27
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined (the tribulation) shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

What will end the desolation and bring the Messiah back? When the desolate shall cry,

Psalm 118:26
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD (Hebrew: Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH = "Welcome, Comer in [the] name of YHWH"): we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
KJV

(Which also means there must first BE a "house of the LORD" or a Temple!)

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On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:16 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

LOL! Very contradictory of you! So, you're saying that Revelation 7 comes BEFORE Revelation 6?

Hi Retro,

I think you may have misunderstood me there bro. I wrote that I believed Rev. 7 is a -  parenthesis. ie things that happen from the beginning to the end of the tribulation. 144,000 at the beginning and the great multitude in the great trib. - second half of the trib.)

I see Rev. 6 as an overview of the 70th week and the 144,000 & great multitude are throughout that.

Hope that is clearer. Marilyn.

 

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Agreed Marilyn, but the great multitude is the pretribuation believers in heaven

The purpose of Revelation 7 is to review both the 144000 mortal Israelites and next the immortal great multitude already in heaven

.... then the tribulation [the 70th week] begins in chapter 8  

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21 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Agreed Marilyn, but the great multitude is the pretribuation believers in heaven

The purpose of Revelation 7 is to review both the 144000 mortal Israelites and next the immortal great multitude already in heaven

.... then the tribulation [the 70th week] begins in chapter 8  

Hi Daniel,

I agree that the 70th week begins in Rev. 8, (though we are given the overview -beginning, (nations line up) middle (martyrs) end (Jesus` return).

Now the great multitude, which are named `nations` `come out of the great tribulation` (Rev. 7: 14). They are the people during the great tribulation that died of thirst, heat and hunger. They looked to God to save them. They are of the nations and will continue to be of the nations in the New Earth.

`And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honour into it. (New Jerusalem).` (Rev. 21: 24) 

We, the called out ones from the nations & Israel are called the Body of Christ. We have a different inheritance in God`s great kingdom.

regards, Marilyn.

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8 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

I think you may have misunderstood me there bro. I wrote that I believed Rev. 7 is a -  parenthesis. ie things that happen from the beginning to the end of the tribulation. 144,000 at the beginning and the great multitude in the great trib. - second half of the trib.)

I see Rev. 6 as an overview of the 70th week and the 144,000 & great multitude are throughout that.

Hope that is clearer. Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Okay, yes. That makes more sense.

I still say, however, that the word "tribulation" is the wrong word for this scenario. The fact that Revelation 6 shows the meteorite shower, that is, the "stars falling from the sky to the earth," at the opening of the sixth seal, is what Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24:29-31, which He said occurs "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days."

I understand your take that Revelation 6 is an overview of the 70th Seven of Daniel 9, but I believe in the telescoping of the seals, trumpets, and bowls; that is, I believe that the opening of the seventh seal begins the seven trumpets and the sounding of the seventh trumpet begins the seven bowl judgments. I believe that is a better way to read Revelation 6:1 through 16:21. It's more true to the literal wording of the introductions to each grouping. For instance,

Revelation 8:1-6
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
KJV

and...

Revelation 11:15-19
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV
...

Revelation 14:17-15:1
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
KJV

Thus, they are PROGRESSIONS, one into the next: the seventh seal is the seven trumpets. The seventh trumpet is (the seven thunders ... shh!) The seventh thunder is the seven signs, and the seventh sign is the seven bowls of last plagues.

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43 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Okay, yes. That makes more sense.

I still say, however, that the word "tribulation" is the wrong word for this scenario. The fact that Revelation 6 shows the meteorite shower, that is, the "stars falling from the sky to the earth," at the opening of the sixth seal, is what Yeshua` was talking about in Matthew 24:29-31, which He said occurs "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days."

I understand your take that Revelation 6 is an overview of the 70th Seven of Daniel 9, but I believe in the telescoping of the seals, trumpets, and bowls; that is, I believe that the opening of the seventh seal begins the seven trumpets and the sounding of the seventh trumpet begins the seven bowl judgments. I believe that is a better way to read Revelation 6:1 through 16:21. It's more true to the literal wording of the introductions to each grouping. For instance,

Hi Retro,

Glad we sorted that out. As to the word `tribulation` well `Jacob`s trouble,` the 70th week, are all scriptural & also `the tribulation` (of those days which have never been or will be again, it says).

And the layout of Rev. I will keep for another thread. You may be interested in the next series in my blogs which is `the tribulation Calendar` just using the numbers and relevant details with Jewish calendar & holidays. I`m preparing it now. Be interested in your comments bro.

regards, Marilyn.

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