Two very simple questions

[Daniel 11:36]

"This is why one should NOT be equating the "tribulation" with the "70th Seven" of Daniel 9! They are NOT the same time period! These are NOT "believers during the coming tribulation"; they are "believers coming OUT of tribulation!"

 

No truth to your ideas .... the coming tribulation is the same as the 70th week decreed for Israel plus 30 days for the battle of Armageddon

 

[Retrobyter]

57 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"This is why one should NOT be equating the "tribulation" with the "70th Seven" of Daniel 9! They are NOT the same time period! These are NOT "believers during the coming tribulation"; they are "believers coming OUT of tribulation!"

 

No truth to your ideas .... the coming tribulation is the same as the 70th week decreed for Israel plus 30 days for the battle of Armageddon

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

Okay, so far that's your opinion, but it's based on ....??? (Book, chapter and verse, please.)

Oh, and just for your information, the ONLY verses in Revelation that uses the same word as Yeshua` did in Matthew 24 for "tribulation" is found in 1:9; 2:9, 10, 22; and 7:14, and this last location is the verse we are discussing.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Retrobyter

[Daniel 11:36]

"Okay, so far that's your opinion, but it's based on ....??? (Book, chapter and verse, please.)"

 

Read Daniel 9:24 and Daniel 12:11 

[Last Daze]

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Many of those who become believers during the coming tribulation will be killed [Revelation 14:12-13] and resurrected at the end of the tribulation [Revelation 20:4]"

 

Believe this

Why?  There's no scriptural basis for it.  It's a falsehood that was fabricated to explain other falsehoods.  When God sends a strong delusion on those who rejected the truth and took pleasure in unrighteousness, they will believe the lie and they will be kept under punishment.

• The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9

The "great revival" that you teach will not happen because its a fallacy that contradicts scripture.

[Last Daze]

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Daniel 11:36 and Last Daze.

This is why one should NOT be equating the "tribulation" with the "70th Seven" of Daniel 9! They are NOT the same time period! These are NOT "believers during the coming tribulation"; they are "believers coming OUT of tribulation!"

"The Tribulation" is such a nebulous term that lacks scriptural definition and is the source of much confusion.  Concerning the latter days and "tribulation" there is the 42 months or 3.5 years that is given to the man of sin to wage war against the saints:

• There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  Revelation 13:5-7
• He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.  Daniel 7:25

There is a time of intense persecution at the beginning of his 42 month war against the saints that is referred to as "great tribulation".  It begins when the abomination of desolation is set up and ends when the sixth seal is opened.  It does not last the full 42 months because if it did, no flesh would be saved.  So, for the sake of the elect, the intense persecution is cut short of the full 42 months.  Something happens when the sixth seal is opened that hampers the man of sin's ability to wage war against believers with the same fervor that started the 42 months.  The 42 months are not cut short, the intensity of persecution is.

We don't know how long the great tribulation lasts, only its beginning and ending events:

• Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.  Matthew 24:15,21,29-30a

I think the duration of the great tribulation is anywhere from 40 days to 6 months as a reasonable guess, but still, just a guess.

I do agree that the seventieth week of Daniel 9 is never referred to as "tribulation".

[Shilohsfoal]

9 hours ago, Last Daze said:

"The Tribulation" is such a nebulous term that lacks scriptural definition and is the source of much confusion.  Concerning the latter days and "tribulation" there is the 42 months or 3.5 years that is given to the man of sin to wage war against the saints:

• There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  Revelation 13:5-7
• He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.  Daniel 7:25

There is a time of intense persecution at the beginning of his 42 month war against the saints that is referred to as "great tribulation".  It begins when the abomination of desolation is set up and ends when the sixth seal is opened.  It does not last the full 42 months because if it did, no flesh would be saved.  So, for the sake of the elect, the intense persecution is cut short of the full 42 months.  Something happens when the sixth seal is opened that hampers the man of sin's ability to wage war against believers with the same fervor that started the 42 months.  The 42 months are not cut short, the intensity of persecution is.

We don't know how long the great tribulation lasts, only its beginning and ending events:

• Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.  Matthew 24:15,21,29-30a

I think the duration of the great tribulation is anywhere from 40 days to 6 months as a reasonable guess, but still, just a guess.

I do agree that the seventieth week of Daniel 9 is never referred to as "tribulation".

Actually,the king of the north gives israel a military which shall exorcise the authority of the Israeli government on its behalf.

The king of the north and the Israeli government are great allies.

After the ten Muslim nations destroy the gentile millitary occupying jerusalem and take Jerusalem and rape the Israeli women,kill the men and the rest flee,then the king of the north uses the abomination that causes desolation killing the Prince of the covenant and an innumerable army.He will annihilate many Muslims on that day.

[Daniel 11:36]

"The "great revival" that you teach will not happen because its a fallacy that contradicts scripture"

 

What "great revival"?

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

On 06/11/2017 at 9:21 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

 

#1 Are the 144,000 israelites sealed before or after the stars of heaven fall unto the earth?

After.

[inchrist]

20 hours ago, Last Daze said:

"The Tribulation" is such a nebulous term that lacks scriptural definition and is the source of much confusion.  Concerning the latter days and "tribulation" there is the 42 months or 3.5 years that is given to the man of sin to wage war against the saints:

• There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  Revelation 13:5-7
• He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.  Daniel 7:25

There is a time of intense persecution at the beginning of his 42 month war against the saints that is referred to as "great tribulation".  It begins when the abomination of desolation is set up and ends when the sixth seal is opened.  It does not last the full 42 months because if it did, no flesh would be saved.  So, for the sake of the elect, the intense persecution is cut short of the full 42 months.  Something happens when the sixth seal is opened that hampers the man of sin's ability to wage war against believers with the same fervor that started the 42 months.  The 42 months are not cut short, the intensity of persecution is.

We don't know how long the great tribulation lasts, only its beginning and ending events:

• Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand). For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.  Matthew 24:15,21,29-30a

I think the duration of the great tribulation is anywhere from 40 days to 6 months as a reasonable guess, but still, just a guess.

I do agree that the seventieth week of Daniel 9 is never referred to as "tribulation".

I like this Last Daze...its well balanced

[WilliamL]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:21 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

 

#1 Are the 144,000 israelites sealed before or after the stars of heaven fall unto the earth?

 

On 11/6/2017 at 2:33 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

Did Jesus say the stars of heaven would fall unto the earth before or after the tribulation?

 

Depends upon what type of stars you are referring to.

The physical stars we see at night will appear to fall after the trib. (Matt. 24:29), although in my understanding this will be the visual affect of a pole reversal.

However, some of the angelic host/elohim of heaven, sometimes called stars, will be cast down at the very beginning of the trib., immediately prior to the flight of Rev. 12's woman into the wilderness. Rev. 12:9-14 This was portrayed in type during the Exodus, when God judged the "gods"/elohim of Egypt just before the Israelites likewise fled into the wilderness. Ex. 12:12; Num. 33:4

The 144,000 Israelites are sealed at the time of the appearance of the Lord at His Coming. They do not ascend with the Spirit-filled saints of the Church. In the Exodus, the correspondence is to the 70 elders of Israel who ate and drank before the Lord "from afar" (Ex. 24:1ff.), but did not ascend with Moses and Joshua upon the mountain into the cloud of the Presence.