As little as one drink of alcohol per day could cause cancer

[coheir]

17 minutes ago, other one said:

if someone comes by here and reads your posts and decides not to take the vaccine and gets sick and dies, their blood is on your hands....  

I've taken flu shots every year since 1972 and i'm as healthy as any other 70 year old that I know, and better than most.

 

I posted earlier that I saw a video of a nurse saying the flu shot was not safe. I wanted to hear what people had to say about such video. I too take flu shot every year and am 67 never had flu or problems with the shot.  peoples body react differently to things I have allergies to a couple highly used medicines many can use them.

[coheir]

3 months ago was my second flu shot and second pneumonia vaccine  they are highly recommended. I was told I would have sore arm and I did. It reminded me of the black plague shot in the service years ago. Speaking of the service when I was in we had to keep a duffel bag full and ready to go within 24 hours of notification and we had a lot of shots regular in case we went some where overs seas; and the duffel bag was unloaded and inspected on a regular schedule.

[OakWood]

On 11/29/2017 at 7:26 PM, simplejeff said:

Besides the Book "Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson last century,  (proving from Scripture),

here's a tidbit for those seeking truth (of course everyone says )....

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/wine_lie_Jesus.htm

excerpt below:   (see last line "Disobedience is SIN, and JESUS never SINNED" .... and keep seeking Yahweh's Kingdom.)

"Taking Jesus' Miracle Out of Context to Justify Wrongdoing

One Sunday morning while preparing for a service, a young Christian man who had previously attended our services approached me.  He explained that he wouldn’t be in Church that morning because he’d been out drinking alcohol all night.  He then actually attempted to justify himself by explaining, “Jesus didn’t have a problem with wine.  He drank it Himself.”  He even claimed he could prove it from the Bible.  Hung-over and stupefied, he stood there dumfounded as I corrected this popular lie using the same Bible he referred me to.

I immediately took him to the following Scripture passage in Isaiah.  

“Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.” (Isaiah 65:8)

I shared with this inebriated young Christian that when grapes are still on the vine and "in the cluster" God refers to the non-alcoholic juice contained within the grapes as “wine.”  

“Grape juice still in the cluster is not fermented wine,” I explained.  “It is unfermented wine.  It is grape juice.  

"There are two kinds of ‘wine’ referred to in the Bible.  Fermented and unfermented.”

I explained that Jesus neither drank nor created fermented, alcoholic wine.  That would have been disobedience to His Father’s Word.  Disobedience is sin and Jesus never sinned."

How do you know that Jesus never drank unfermented wine?

By the way it was virtually impossible to store unfermented grape juice in those days, because if you store grape juice for any length of time it ferments, because yeast spores occur naturally on the skin of a grape and being a living, breeding organism is almost impossible to remove without modern filtration techniques or modern chemicals. In fact I will tell you that is easier to ferment something, than it is to prevent it from fermenting. I've found old bottles of fruit juice in my fridge that I had forgotten about and that have already fermented. When you removed the lid you could clearly smell the alcohol inside. Even apples that have dropped on the floor of an orchard have been found to contain alcohol after just a couple of days because yeast spores get just about everywhere.

In fact you buy a carton or bottle of non-alcoholic grape juice you will find it contains artificial yeast-killing preservatives to prevent fermentation from happening! Such modern preservatives had not been invented in Biblical times.

Jesus gave his wedding guests 'old wine' as well as new. What exactly is meant by the term 'old wine' if not referring to wine (ie grape juice) that is old, and therefore fermented?

Many teetotal Christians pervert the words of scripture to justify the reason that even a small amount of alcohol consumption is a sin, yet what they don't realise is that the word 'wine' means 'wine'. It does not mean unfermented grape juice! If it did then the Bible would refer to it as grape juice, and not as wine!

[Guest shiloh357]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:18 AM, OakWood said:

How do you know that Jesus never drank unfermented wine?

By the way it was virtually impossible to store unfermented grape juice in those days, because if you store grape juice for any length of time it ferments, because yeast spores occur naturally on the skin of a grape and being a living, breeding organism is almost impossible to remove without modern filtration techniques or modern chemicals. In fact I will tell you that is easier to ferment something, than it is to prevent it from fermenting. I've found old bottles of fruit juice in my fridge that I had forgotten about and that have already fermented. When you removed the lid you could clearly smell the alcohol inside. Even apples that have dropped on the floor of an orchard have been found to contain alcohol after just a couple of days because yeast spores get just about everywhere.

In fact you buy a carton or bottle of non-alcoholic grape juice you will find it contains artificial yeast-killing preservatives to prevent fermentation from happening! Such modern preservatives had not been invented in Biblical times.

Jesus gave his wedding guests 'old wine' as well as new. What exactly is meant by the term 'old wine' if not referring to wine (ie grape juice) that is old, and therefore fermented?

Many teetotal Christians pervert the words of scripture to justify the reason that even a small amount of alcohol consumption is a sin, yet what they don't realise is that the word 'wine' means 'wine'. It does not mean unfermented grape juice! If it did then the Bible would refer to it as grape juice, and not as wine!

Wouldn't matter.  The fermentation process that we used today, produce a much higher proof than the natural  fermentation process that was used in those days.   It would take much, much more of the wine that was used back then to arrive that same effects that modern wine and other spirits create in our day and age. 

A lot of alcohohlic Christians use the Bible to justify their addiction and lack of self-control

[OakWood]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

Wouldn't matter.  The fermentation process that we used today, produce a much higher proof than the natural  fermentation process that was used in those days.   It would take much, much more of the wine that was used back then to arrive that same effects that modern wine and other spirits create in our day and age. 

A lot of alcohohlic Christians use the Bible to justify their addiction and lack of self-control

Fermentation processes are exactly the same today as they were then. Yeast turns the available sugar into alcohol. There is no more or less sugar in grapes today than there was yesterday. It is a natural process that hasn't changed. In fact the finestr wines are still fermented using the same processes that have occurred for millennia.

However, bottling processes, preservative processes and production processes are different. These have no affect on the alcohol content. Average grape juice grown on moderate soil will still produce 9% alcohol by volume by natural processes which is still twice as strong as an average beer. Beer is more than strong enough to get a person drunk!

It is not possible to produce a wine with more than about 16% alcohol because the excess alcohol kills the yeast. The only way to produce an alcoholic drink more than 16% is either by distillation or fortification, or other artificial means. To artificially add alcohol (ethanol) is expensive and unnecessary.

Most wines today range from 9% to 15% alcohol by volume - more than enough to get a person drunk and completely within the range of natural fermentation.

More alcohol means more duty tax to pay so manufacturers have nothing to gain by artificially increasing alcohol content other than pushing up the price.

When it comes to winemaking and brewing, you have simply no idea what you are talking about!

And you are suggesting that some Christians who occasionally drink alcohol are alcoholics. Shame on you!

[hmbld]

7 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Fermentation processes are exactly the same today as they were then. Yeast turns the available sugar into alcohol. There is no more or less sugar in grapes today than there was yesterday. It is a natural process that hasn't changed. In fact the finestr wines are still fermented using the same processes that have occurred for millennia.

However, bottling processes, preservative processes and production processes are different. These have no affect on the alcohol content. Average grape juice grown on moderate soil will still produce 9% alcohol by volume by natural processes which is still twice as strong as an average beer. Beer is more than strong enough to get a person drunk!

It is not possible to produce a wine with more than about 16% alcohol because the excess alcohol kills the yeast. The only way to produce an alcoholic drink more than 16% is either by distillation or fortification, or other artificial means. To artificially add alcohol (ethanol) is expensive and unnecessary.

Most wines today range from 9% to 15% alcohol by volume - more than enough to get a person drunk and completely within the range of natural fermentation.

More alcohol means more duty tax to pay so manufacturers have nothing to gain by artificially increasing alcohol content other than pushing up the price.

When it comes to winemaking and brewing, you have simply no idea what you are talking about!

And you are suggesting that some Christians who occasionally drink alcohol are alcoholics. Shame on you!

I understand it was common to add any alcoholic drink to water to make water safe to drink, thus the percentage you provide does not take into account the watered down result. 

[hmbld]

Why do we all tell each other, you don’t know what your talking about?    

[Guest shiloh357]

10 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Fermentation processes are exactly the same today as they were then.

No, that is not true.  Our liquor is far stronger than it was in ancient times.  

Quote

And you are suggesting that some Christians who occasionally drink alcohol are alcoholics. Shame on you!

No, I was talking about alcoholics, not people who take a drink now and then.

Quote

When it comes to winemaking and brewing, you have simply no idea what you are talking about!

LOL  This coming from someone who thinks the earth is flat.   I am not dumb enough to take you as an authority on anything.

[OakWood]

55 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not true.  Our liquor is far stronger than it was in ancient times.  

No, I was talking about alcoholics, not people who take a drink now and then.

LOL  This coming from someone who thinks the earth is flat.   I am not dumb enough to take you as an authority on anything.

I know about winemaking and brewing but if you think I am wrong - look it up. We'll see who is right. Fermentation is fermentation. Ask anybody who knows about the subject and they will confirm that you don't know what you are talking about.

And don't infer that I am dumb. The man who resorts to insults has lost the argument, even veiled ones! Facts are facts, and are not subject to change just because of your opinion of a particular person. Perhaps if you actually read up on the subject you will discover that you clearly know nothing about the biochemistry or the history of brewing and viticulture, as your previous answers clearly demonstrate. Maybe it's time to educate yourself.

And even if you were right about modern alcoholic drinks being stronger today than they were 2,00 years ago (which you are not), the point is still irrelevant.

9% of alcohol is more than strong enough to easily get a person drunk; any stronger drink would just mean that you need to drink less of it. Regardless of it requires one pint to get you drunk or one-tenth of a pint to get you drunk, the wine in Ancient Hebrew times was still very intoxicating - whether today's wine is even stronger or not!

This is not a flat Earth topic and FE is irrelevant to the thread and the subject of Flat Earth should not be introduced to it, but if that's the only way you can debate a subject by diverting the reader's attention to another one then perhaps you should politely bow out of the discussion and leave the thread to those who are capable of giving constructive answers.

[1to3]

On 11/29/2017 at 2:26 PM, simplejeff said:

“Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.” (Isaiah 65:8)

I shared with this inebriated young Christian that when grapes are still on the vine and "in the cluster" God refers to the non-alcoholic juice contained within the grapes as “wine.”  

“Grape juice still in the cluster is not fermented wine,” I explained.  “It is unfermented wine.  It is grape juice.  

"There are two kinds of ‘wine’ referred to in the Bible.  Fermented and unfermented.”

I explained that Jesus neither drank nor created fermented, alcoholic wine.  That would have been disobedience to His Father’s Word.  Disobedience is sin and Jesus never sinned."

I honestly wished this was the truth  simple Jeff;

As it is also written in  holy scripture:

1 Timothy 3:1-13

 

1 Timothy 3:1-13New King James Version (NKJV)

Qualifications of Overseers

3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,^[a] he desires a good work. ² A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; ³ not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,^[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; ⁴ one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence ⁵ (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); ⁶ not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. ⁷ Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Qualifications of Deacons

⁸ Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, ⁹ holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. ¹⁰ But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. ¹¹ Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. ¹² Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. ¹³ For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I very much would like to believe Christ Jesus did not drink fermented drink or a least did not get drunk.

As little as one sip in your mouth of alcoholic beverage can change a person. ask any recovering alcoholic.

Also you don't need to have become an alcoholic to see changes in a persons behavior after just one sip, let alone on drink of alcohol.

 

how i see it? with the eyes I already had as a child seeing my parents consume even just a little alcohol? and even gave my brother and me a sip to taste? sometimes even a little glass?

I saw change  in my parents and it was for a child = "scary to see."

Also when i was given my first sip of alcohol., I immediately I instantly felt different and yes it was kind of pleasant, but it instantly also made me sneeze. I remember sometimes when my mother prepared super she had a glass of wine and always added a teaspoon of sugar to her wine. She sometimes gave me a sip to taste of it.

Also I never liked to see my mothers mood change, from not having a drink to having a drink. She was like two different people.

I remember that I always sneezed after taking a sip from my mothers wine or ay other alcoholic beverage.

Maybe because of culture, it was not looked as a bad thing to have wine , champagne, bear  and some nice liqueurs on special occasions such as Christmas, Easter, birthdays, special diners.

However I would have much preferred had my family been a christian family that did not partake in alcohol at all.

I have seen to much of the damage that alcohol does to ever endorse it as being ok , especially for  a true seeker of the Lord to think that taking it occasionally is OK.

Toward the end of my mothers life she drew closer and closer to christian life, yet my brother was a total atheist  and that placed a big dent in much of our family life.

But my mother even though she was like I said closer to living a christian life than ever before, was an elder in her church, she still took the occasional glass of wine. She was never an alcoholic, just like the occasional glass of wine.

What confused me with that was , she was going to a Pentecostal church, where i knew alcohol was not permitted, and also she was a deacon, but yet she still took a glass or two of wine on the occasion.

To me, just my thoughts, I feel that God allowed my mothers life to be shortened, because the day before she hemorrhaged- brain stroke- she took a glass of wine, Also she was taking medication of the like of: Celebrex/anti inflammatory,  blood thinning -warfarin/ coumadin and even was taking some natural stiff. Little was she aware that these were a deadly combination=execively thining her blood, and at the time doctors did not know enough about certain medication and interactions with alcohol to give my mother any warnings.

If you have a cold=this can thin the blood.

If you take certain medications even like aspirin= this can thin the blood

If you take certain herbal nutrients=they can thin the blood

If you take certain pharmaceutical medications +they can thin the blood

If you take alcohol-it thins the blood.

also verathaning wood floors=is also a blood thiner

(A combination of all these can be deadly)

 

When having or taking any of these and even worse combining any of these, it can thin the blood so much that a person can have a hemorrhage aorta stroke .  this type stroke, can Burst in the abdomen like it can burst in the brain.  I write this hoping that people consider these factors seriously.

At the time of my mothers death, she had a cold- my brother began verathaning the upstairs floors, this thins the blood,

she was taking anti-inflammatories and blood thinner and natural products and had a glass of wine , the evening before her fatal morning stroke the next day.

Had my mother been truly committed to living completely for the Lord and NOT taking ANY alcohol even a social drink, I believe my mother would have been still alive today.

Being overweight, drinking, smoking, these all need to be brought into temperance, as we grow closer and closer to the Lord. It also will allow us to be healthier and more able to do Gods work here on earth.

I left a church after I saw at a pastors home boxes of beer lines up against a wall in his home.

That pastor was also a gossip. For those reasons i could not respect this pastor and left that church. this pastor   had four children, the eldest announced to the family that he was gay a few years ago.

I believe that lifestyle choices do make an impact on our lives and those surrounding our lives.

I  also have my own lifestyle choices (concerning, exercise and nutrition) also to improve in order to get closer and closer to Gods will for my life.

If Christ Jesus was a man who drank and got drunk, I really would have not much respect for Him and would have to re-question a lot concerning the bible and my christian faith that is very much based on Gods Word found in the bible.

But i must use Logic concerning whether Christ Jesus was an occasional alcoholic beverage drinker or not.

It is written that Christ Jesus was innocent of sin.

If not, His sinless blood would not have any impact on being able -like the bible states-  salvage us, restore us and heal us and reunite us to God through Christs  BLOOD covering over us and our sins.

when alcohol is imbibed it changes us, as the alcohol works directly into the BLOOD SYSTEM. it thins the blood and goes directly into our nervous system.

 

If I am to respect any person especially in the position of pastor or elder of a church they need to be SOBER, living an alcohol free lifestyle.

And I would say, that for true followers of Christ Jesus, an alcohol free living is I would thing the aim we should desire to aspire to .

 

there is so much hype on alcohol and why we need to drink it.

Do we really need to drink it? No we don't.

and it does not make life worse, it makes life better . more wholesome.

I have not had alcohol in years and really don't miss it, I actually feel much better without it, and don't have any in my home to offer to others. I also do not allow smoking in my home or my outdoor surroundings if i can help it.

Because I want my home to be a completely "wholesome" christian environment. Something, i had wished my childhood family home would have been but was not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by 1to3