Jump to content
IGNORED

Why so much Hate between the Churches/Religions that follow Christ?


notsolostsoul

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  26
  • Topic Count:  61
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  9,602
  • Content Per Day:  4.02
  • Reputation:   7,795
  • Days Won:  21
  • Joined:  09/11/2017
  • Status:  Offline

I was saved. I am saved in this moment. I am being saved in the next and future moments. Being of eastern thought process mix, I have absolutely no problem with my Lord God continually saving me, moment by moment as He is timeless.
(Before you consider a firestorm of rebuke and name calling, please read the following quotes)

[https://billmounce.com/monday-with-mounce/are-you-saved-or-are-you-being-saved”-1-cor-15-2]

This person, Mr. Mounce, has written a book "The basics of Biblical Greek". He has this to comment on 'being saved' and 'saved'.
(Emphasis is mine)

Present tense

Paul writes to the Corinthians, “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved (σωζεσθε), if you hold fast to the word I preached to you— unless you believed in vain” (ESV).

This is one of the main verses used when speaking of the three “times” of salvation — past (on the cross), now (as we walk the path), and the future (Day of the Lord). I was asked the other day whether σωζεσθε should be translated“are saved” (NASB, NIV, HCSB, KJV) or “are being saved” (ESV, NET). In other words, is it an aoristic present or a continuous or even a futuristic present?

There are varied and unrelated translations that go with either, so part of the answer is, yes, you can translate it either way. But why the difference, and which is to be preferred?

Fee and Garland see the progression of the verse as going from the past (“received”), present (“stand”), and the present process with the future reality (“are being saved”), understanding that salvation is in one sense a process that will not reach completion until the Day of the Lord.

That there is a future aspect to salvation is undeniable. Rom 5:9 makes it explicit. “Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved (σωθησομεθα) by him from the wrath of God” (see also 1 Thess 5:9-10). More importantly, because of its contextual proximity, is 1 Cor 1:18 where the continuous (or imperfective if you wish) participle σωζομενοις requires a present sense. “For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (ESV). Surprisingly, most translations go with “who are being saved” here even if they say “are saved” in 15:2, but this is required by the obviously continuous “are perishing.”

So which is to be preferred? Thiselton says the commentaries are agreed that the continuous aspect “is to be explicated” as it “denotes what is done for them in the future,” and think this is best in this context. What would it mean if Paul said they “are” saved “if” they persevere? Not sure that makes sense. The necessity of perseverance and the meaning of the passage does not make sense if in fact the person’s salvation is in every way wholly accomplished in the past.

I know this is constantly a hot topic, but I guess part of your decision comes down to your theology. (What doesn’t?) But as I see it, it makes less sense to say they “are saved if” and more sense to say “are being saved if,” and I would point primarily to 1 Cor 1:18.

Ever since I started pastoring, I think this has been the main question that haunts me. What is a Christian? What is a simple, straight forward, easy-to-understand answer that makes use of all biblical data?

For me, it is Jesus’ gate and path analogy. Being a Christian is a being a follower of Jesus. You start following at the gate, continue following as you walk along the path, and at the end of the path of perseverance is life. So for me, it is easy to say that while I celebrate the finished work of Christ on the cross and the underserved, grace-filled, regenerative work of the Holy Spirit at my conversion, there is a very real sense in which my salvation is an ongoing process culminating in glorification, provided of course that I hold fast to the gospel.

Isn’t that what Paul is saying?

Comment about his determination of the Greek:

[http://www.fundamentallyreformed.com/2011/01/18/salvation-in-the-present-tense/]

Bill Mounce, a Greek professor and author, recently addressed how we should translate the Greek phrase for “being saved”, which some Bibles (like the King James Version) have as “are saved”. His comments reveal how the context of a book and one’s theology often help determine the translation of particular phrases. This is how language works. There is no absolute sense where the tense of a Greek verb has only one translation choice when it comes to putting it into English. That being said, I think Mounce’s case for 1 Cor. 15:2 being understood as “are being saved”, is quite strong. I also like his stress on the idea of being on “the straight and narrow” path, as the ultimate descriptive of our reality as Christ-followers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  12
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  7,689
  • Content Per Day:  2.41
  • Reputation:   2
  • Days Won:  20
  • Joined:  06/30/2015
  • Status:  Offline

20 minutes ago, Butero said:

It is a question about why there is such hate between different religions, so it is just about opinions.

It shouldn't be.   Opinions come and go with the wind.   Burn up like dry grass on a hot day and they're gone.

The followers of Jesus are not to follow any other voice,  only JESUS THE SHEPHERD.

There are dozens of posted posts that are heresies today on the forum, maybe hundreds over a few days.  Those are "opinions" NOT to be listened to,  but solely warned , warned strictly, against.  This includes every false gospel (which are not flagged to know for visitors: so visitors beware, be in prayer constantly) ...

 

 

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Praise God! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

10 hours ago, simplejeff said:

The beast as revealed in Scripture since Scripture was written,

as revealed by the men of God over the last several hundred years,

as revealed by its own doctrines, practices, and abominations,

is now upon the earth.   

Pray as Jesus said in Scripture, that we don't have to flee in winter, or on the Sabbath.

As I heard what Kenneth was saying to the peoples , as I heard him also say that twenty eighteen will be a year of holy ghost fire.

So many scrips popped into my mind.      And if the prophet which speaks has been deceived , I the LORD GOD has deceived that prophet.

GOD sends a lying spirit amongst those who reject Him.   HE DOES and most don't know that .

I will anwer that prophet according to the IDOLS of HIS HEART.      ITS A DELUSOIN going on and its all about uniting with ROME of interfaith for world peace.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

9 hours ago, Butero said:

Thank you for the link.  I just got through watching it.  It does make me think I might be on the right track about why one individual is so hostile towards the President and is also so defensive of the RCC.  What is the one thing that our current President and protestants are standing in the way of?  A one world government and a one world religion.  It could be that we are dealing with a committed globalist, and that is what the real fight is over.  This person might see me as a simpleton for not recognizing that, and clinging to nationalism and the idea that we must stand for the Bible according to truth, even if that makes a one world religion impossible.  

The true Christian church is standing in the way of globalism, as we know from the Bible that the anti-Christ will rule once that one world government is in place, so we oppose it.  We know about the beast system and the mark of the beast.  The true Christian church is not willing to compromise the truth of God's Word to get along and unify everyone.  We would rather continue to be divided than sell out to a religion based on compromise and lies.  

The true church will continue to hinder and prevent a one world religion and a global government from coming into existence, so the phony church is wasting their time and energy trying to force it upon us.  They really should just sit back and be patient, because they will eventually prevail once the Lord returns to take his children to heaven before the tribulation begins.  

"Let no man deceive you by any means:  for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?  AND NOW YE KNOW WHAT WITHHOLDETH THAT HE MIGHT BE REVEALED IN HIS TIME.  FOR THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY DOTH ALREADY WORK:  ONLY HE WHO NOW LETTETH WILL LET, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY."  2 Thessalonians 2:3-7  

Today, the church is stopping the dream of a united church and a one world government, but there will come a time, likely soon, that the church will be taken out of the way through the rapture.  The false church that we are at odds with today will remain, and their vision will be realized at last.  

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."  2 Thessalonians 2:8-12

My thoughts towards those false brethren that oppose us is if they simply wait, they will get what they want.  There will be a one world government and religion.  We just need to make sure we are watching and waiting on the Lord's return so we will be among those taken before those events happen.  

This is quite possible.    but butero their is something else you need to know.

The main ones who surround trump,   butero, lots of them line up with the Kenny crowd.  

Do you remember HOW the left had got so wicked against GOD.  sure you do.   what happened.  IT GOT Obama as DELUSOIN .

Things might not be as they seem.    I watched something happen , and butero, it was real evil what the right did.

When Romney lost ,  the right began pondering why such a defeat.   I watched the message change , they went from warning out against certain things

to trying to be more inclusive and accepting of gay rights and other things , THEY SOLD OUT butero.   they did.

I think this is part of a judgment against the right , a delusion.    Now, I am not accusing trump of anything so lets not turn this into politics at all.

I am only asking you to be on guard .     Ps, their was no way I would vote for hillery, so have peace of mind in that . 

However we need to really focus on biblical doctrine and patterns .    When a group waxes worse , it always gets a judgment of delusion. 

LOOK it don't matter that the left is far worse< the right has errors and bad ones too>
look at WHO got the churches , evangelicals all stirred up for trump.      LOOK at WHO it was.    IT was the same propehts and etc

that had been prophesying in time past and missing it,   it was false ones butero.   YET to work they went in support of trump.

This is not a good sign.    While many think trump is here to save the church.   What if really he is here to change it .  

the ones surrounding him are , as I said of the TBN and Kenny camp.  not all , but most of them.

This world is building a religion , one that is accepting of all , cept TRUTH anyway.

Just be on guard and watch out .   If trump or the ones who called on him , start pushing moer and more a inclusive positive christain religion.

RUN FOR THE HILLS FAST   for this is part of the delusion .   just watch for it .  test it all.  and TRUST only GOD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

5 hours ago, OldSchool2 said:

And now you're blowing a trumpet to let us all know it?

To let you know some of us actually care about your soul.   You come on like a recking ball and heed no one.

You honestly need to believe their is error in us so you can continue in this self paved road you are on.

I am trying to help you old school.  not condmen.   if I wanted you to be condemned , I would just sit and watch you self destruct on this path you are on.

I am not warning you because I enjoy strife.   HOW much I would rather sit and see all follow only Christ and not mens destructive hearsays.

You see this , my and others warning against you as meaning YOU are being persecuted for righteousness sake and that we are the workers of wrongdoings.

But THIS is not the case.    You are in a system that teaches IT IS SUPERIOR to the bible.   guess what , sadly your not special.

Mormons have thiers ,jehovas changed thiers,   buddists and atheists surely think they are superior to the bible

But you KNOW what all these have in common DONT YA.    they lost .  so what makes you so certain YOU aint.  You follow a system which teaches

in a false modest way, ITS SUPERIOR  in thought deed and work.  This aint new , its the way darkness overcomes the people.

How ,   It says things like this .  the bible may be good or is good ,  BUT,  none are accurate, and we have new knowledge or whatever .

YOU DO KNOW if the dark one can convince people the bible is second at best and inaccurate ,  HE HAS THEM BRO, HE HAS THEM for they will follow

his men who appear TO have the KNOWELDGE .   

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

10 minutes ago, Davida said:

The allegiance to Roman Catholicism is fierce- sadly, and it preaches a confused & corrupted message. If only there would be that kind of single-mindedness & faithfulness to seeking God's truth through hearing the Word of God - that is what saves people - hearing the full message of the Gospel and that is only done through the Word of God not through Priestly traditions or spiritual messages from Popes.  

When I hear falsehoods concerning the Bible uttered , I must respond, because once I too was deceived.  I do not want others to be lost in any corrupted Christian counterfeit. The RCC is a deceiving spiritual stronghold that has entrapped too many. I was raised in an Anglican Church -almost as bad as in RC-just without the Mary worship. They are influenced by it and have let corrupt doctrine & heresies creep in from both sides from the RC tradition & corrupted protestant heresies.

I Live my life in enemy territory.  A large percentage of my family is Roman Catholic , the other Anglican so I firsthand I've heard their confused unchristian beliefs uttered. I have been exposed for yrs to the RC arrogance taught them by the Mother Church that sees themselves as favored by God , only they "heaven bound" as they look down their noses at the childlike Bible believing evangelical Christians that they think foolishly, naively believe in the "paper"Bible scripture as the Word of God because ONLY the RCC according to RC doctrine has the promise of heaven by their ritiuals, religious tradition, through their "divinely appointed" Popes & Priests who are a higher divine authority above the scripture , which to them is just a confusing spiritual book.

I've seen the allegiance to this false representation of Mary & the false representation of the Son of GOD, our Lord Jesus & the prayers to the dead nuns & dead priests called "catholic saints".  In their Churches are huge towering Mary statues or St. Anthony or some other of these false demi-gods, in the RCC it is like the Roman/greek pantheon of gods and goddesses with a bright shiny veneer of Christianity applied over top. I've been to mass many times, I've been to the funerals, I know firsthand the lies told by the Priests. I heard the Priest tell the parishioners "You want to get to heaven? ...GOD LOVES Tradition, GOD LOVES when HE hears you say the Rosary, mother Mary hears your prayers , GOD LOVES when you attend Mass daily!" It felt like a spiritual cloud of death enshrouded this Roman Catholic Church- obviously pagan, obviously in opposition & in contempt of the Kingdom of God and it leads the misinformed away from the Gospel of salvation.

With all the statues in rome that men bend down too.     I think, not for sure, but I really think

that if in a moment of time paul had approached Ephesus .  and then a vision had appeared of rome......HE would have flat out RUN right into

the vision of ROME and been yelling at the top of his lungs ,  FLEE THIS <FLEE THIS < FLEE THIS

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

That is so sad.    the very thing paul was warning out to the ephsians about , ROME has done.  ONLY they have made DIANA into mary.    Mary would be full out crying if she had seen this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

IF mary were alive today on this earth and saw what Catholicism had done to her and other saints.

WELL, she would be doing JUST as she had told the men at Cana,    DO WHATEVER HE SAYS, she would point to her son, NOT HERSELF.   HER SON.

ROME has destroyed so much and its about to get muchworse.   We gotta get old school out of this fast.   I am so worried for him.  so worried.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Mars Hill
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  18
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  13,256
  • Content Per Day:  5.40
  • Reputation:   1
  • Days Won:  62
  • Joined:  07/07/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/25/1972

1 minute ago, Davida said:

I'm sure the LORD GOD has protected the true humble maiden Mary, wife of Joseph, mother of Jesus, James, Joseph, Jude, Simon and His sisters, and the dedicated follower of the Lord Jesus from this.

I am glad you brought this up.  see a lot of folks teach mary never had more children  .  That her and her OWN husband never slept together.

But come now , man and wife do that and it aint SIN to do so. 

PLUS , watch this.

AND HE KNEW HER NOT .................TILL after the birth .   TILL AFTER    ,   spells it out .    I mean what on earth does rome think.

its some kind of sin to say a woman had other children with her own HUSBAND none the less.

I know why they do it.   ITS because they have exalted mary as an object to be worshipped.    WE know she is blessed, none of us says otherwise.

But we KNOW not to pray to her , nor any , ONLY GOD .

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

This is quite possible.    but butero their is something else you need to know.

The main ones who surround trump,   butero, lots of them line up with the Kenny crowd.  

Do you remember HOW the left had got so wicked against GOD.  sure you do.   what happened.  IT GOT Obama as DELUSOIN .

Things might not be as they seem.    I watched something happen , and butero, it was real evil what the right did.

When Romney lost ,  the right began pondering why such a defeat.   I watched the message change , they went from warning out against certain things

to trying to be more inclusive and accepting of gay rights and other things , THEY SOLD OUT butero.   they did.

I think this is part of a judgment against the right , a delusion.    Now, I am not accusing trump of anything so lets not turn this into politics at all.

I am only asking you to be on guard .     Ps, their was no way I would vote for hillery, so have peace of mind in that . 

However we need to really focus on biblical doctrine and patterns .    When a group waxes worse , it always gets a judgment of delusion. 

LOOK it don't matter that the left is far worse< the right has errors and bad ones too>
look at WHO got the churches , evangelicals all stirred up for trump.      LOOK at WHO it was.    IT was the same propehts and etc

that had been prophesying in time past and missing it,   it was false ones butero.   YET to work they went in support of trump.

This is not a good sign.    While many think trump is here to save the church.   What if really he is here to change it .  

the ones surrounding him are , as I said of the TBN and Kenny camp.  not all , but most of them.

This world is building a religion , one that is accepting of all , cept TRUTH anyway.

Just be on guard and watch out .   If trump or the ones who called on him , start pushing moer and more a inclusive positive christain religion.

RUN FOR THE HILLS FAST   for this is part of the delusion .   just watch for it .  test it all.  and TRUST only GOD.

I am cautious about everything, but in all fairness to Trump, he has become less tolerant, not more.  He put in place a ban against transgender people serving in the military.  He has been strongly pro-life, much more so than I expected.  He has moved further right.  Of course, I look at actions, so if he were to turn and go in the opposite direction, he would lose my support.  I was nervous about him going into the election, but I was a never Hillary voter.  He has been a pleasant surprise.  

We should never have blind trust.  I agree with you about that.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...