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Would having special services for Pastors or other members be considered Idolatry?


notsolostsoul

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2 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I have no problem with a pastor living from the flock.   MY problem is when they live better than the flock. OR focus on MONEY .

as for a pastor being appreciated ,  sure so long as the church gives all the recognition to GOD and the pastor can either refuse or accept it .

Most I think who truly follow Christ would probably say lets make this into a HONOR GOD day.    but personally I have no problem with it

SO long as the people don't make him out to be some great one .  that would be a problem that is idolatry.    I love the examples of paul and peter

where they KNEW they had the right to live from the flock. BUT never took advantage of it, instead they were as ensamples to the flock.

Paul was so concerned for the church , he even had their giving be stored up before HE came so it would be seen as bounty rather  than any way to be seen as covetous.

THEY sure preached against any kind of love for money.   Because they themselves had NO LOVE FOR MONEY,  their LOVE was the church and the GOSPLE and CHRIST .

Thank you!!!

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1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

But who to send them too

Jesus!!!

Matthew 18:20 (KJV)

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

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10 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

I have known some churches to have Pastor's day or Pastor's Appreciation day.

I never understood the purpose of this and would this be a form of idolatry, since it is an annual celebration of a pastor?

Also, why do they pass around extra collection plates?

Are these a Biblical practice?

Hi,  May I first say . I too had a "What?!" mindset when I saw that on the church's service bulletin. A simple banner November is pastor appreciation month. Ah okay do I not appreciate my elders the other months? was my own negative response. Oy vey such  a bad mind!- I tried to shake off that evil influence that came from my heart. And I have been successful, least in part.

Is it idol worship to exalt a man, well it sure can be, but is it idol worship to say thanks to anyone anyone at all  for their kindnesses?  I think it rather rude to not do so. Kinda sad really that anyone of the sheep do not appreciate a shepherd so profusely that any special  additional thanks would  be but an unnoticed blip on the constant year round praising, praying, helping, and yes  even a special  extra financial giving, if so led by the Holy Spirit in good conscience.

 October was a month of additional awareness or appreciation of our missionaries. Yes a month long of additional prayer, writing of notes of encouragement, and  a gathering of funds for them as we are blessed to do so toward a gift to each missionary family  to help them with their own seasonal financial burdens.

Funny thing happens though, there is a great giving for the missionaries each October, and an almost to the penny the same amount of a shortage in the regular giving! Sad but financially true. Now I can conclude one of two things-  Seems "we" do rob Peter to pay Paul; or I can conclude that the joy of giving is so abundant within this local body that  it is all in all the time and there is no more to give.

 

Back to appreciating people, why not? Why not appreciate? Why does anyone think, never mind go and say, a pastor/elder/ teacher is not worth more than  the average of the body of Christ gets? What goofy  capital D Demoncrat distribution scheme is that? What is that thought born of? Envy?  Am I so unaware of the benefit of my pastor's efforts upon my family, my community,  and myself that I would say in my heart-Not for you, nothing superior for you, at most an average wage for you?  How many prayed and prayed, and helped with food,  cleaning and encouragement when my wife was so sick and then died? My entire church body led by my elders and pastors! Who was at my own hospital bed when I was down? It was my pastor! Yet I should resent my pastor's  financial station as compared to someone elses? How crazy a thought! Who does more than  my pastor? Who puts in  as many hours a week each week at their  calling than my pastors do? NONE, absolutely none! Should I resent a public display that focuses on appreciation of my pastor? No! I should in fact I must  embrace it or suffer knowledge in my heart of my shame.

 I tell all that read here, there is not a day, nor hardly an evening, that the elders, the pastors, the teachers, do not get  a beating in words from someone who has decided it is up to them to straighten out the leaders of the local body of Christ.  365 days a year there is some crass comment, mean spirited message, or call coming in.  Why not have some awareness day, or month for appreciation? It will be a great contrast and encouragement to the saint that has been called to pastor a local body  of Christ Jesus.

Fact this conversation  has me reminded that I am so blessed to have the team of elders, deacons, and deaconessses, plus the fellowship of so many saints that I should embrace the idea of appreciation by taking pen in hand and writing to  as many  as I know, a letter of my own appreciation that God has brought their benefit into my own life. Praise God.

 

All that to say there is  fine fellowship in saying thanks to pastors just as there is for typing "Thanks", thanks for this internet outreach at Worthy Christian Forums. Thanks to all that make it work, and if led by the Holy Spirit to contribute to the effort financially too. Money is a medium for saying thanks. It works. Of course there is good purpose served in giving thanks to God for providing our leadership our pastors our local bodies of Christ Jesus.

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Let me add something here from the side of someone that has received special gifts of appreciation while directly working for a local Body of Christ. It is rather hard to be gracious in receiving such a thing! Odd eh?  But there is some kind of pride that also says, no thanks. You can't give me money, can't give me a school sweat shirt,  can't give me a stipend for working your wedding, your funerals, nor all the events and things that take away from my own time off, my "personal time" for there is no personal time in the service of  our Lord. I do it for the Lord! ( aren't I special?)!

 Oh such a sin, to be so mean as to deny a person their appreciation, and to deny their opportunity to express their generosity, their love of their Lord Jesus in  a practical manner, that of thanking and of sharing what God has provided for them to share and give- give away  in love of another saint.

It took me some long time to get over myself, my service, and to just learn to accept a "thanks". Giving a physical or financial gift is just that,  a sharing in the service to our Lord, doing so by physical appreciation expressions being both given and  generously and humbly received, each with thanks to God. God does love a cheerful giver, which also requires a cheerful recipient, what a sin -to impede the generosity of another. One surprise gift caught me totally unaware and is so appreciated by me now as never before. Three  years ago the school annual  photographers ( all students) were practicing their candid photo shoots and just "happened" to be around me as I worked. They pestered me, joked with me, got me to smile a bit, took my photogaph and were off. That year I was later given a copy of the annual with a marker  on a page and a lot of signatures. I opened it- there was my picture and a full page of text  of appreciation, and  the declaring of me to be the "employee of the year". What a stunning surprise that was!  And to be honest it is quite nice to know of it today, now that I have had to retire. It is a comfort even as my body is not being able to suffer the pain of the work any longer and my mind must embrace that pride defeating  fact.

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15 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I do it for the Lord! (aren't I special?)!

Thank You Neighbor. The whole body of what you said is fruitful. Thank you for sharing.

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9 hours ago, missmuffet said:

When I attended a Church I was ok with tithing. But they would ask for more and more money for this and for that.

Church really have its costs, and it has bills to be paid. And every member should contribute what he/she can or is moved to.

I agree there are some who goes too extreme when it comes to convince members of contributing. But those who are indeed in Christ have no need to be convinced by men.

"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:31

 

10 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I could not afford all of that and they seemed put out that I did not contribute.

Did you contribute to help or to be noted by them!? Because if you have contributed from the heart to help the good work of the Gospel, God is seeing you and He is happy.

"But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly." - Matthew 6:3-4

 

Supporting the Church with resources and money is a form of contributing in spreading the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and if the Ministry is indeed doing it then those who are in Christ should freely give what he/she can. Members who do not contribute at all is all the devil wants, it helps to stop the good seeding that is being performed.

 

10 hours ago, missmuffet said:

These are just a couple of the reasons I stay out of a Church.

This is sad to hear, I used to think in a similar manner as well. But I have experienced that being part of a Church is a great opportunity to have fellowship with other people in Christ and help others. And when the Church is preaching truth, and we see people being saved it is very good to be part of it.

 

But if anyone seek utmost perfection from the Churches I am not sure if one exists that meet this criteria in this world. Being Truth centered and actually leading people to salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ seems to be good enough.

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Guest shiloh357
11 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

I have known some churches to have Pastor's day or Pastor's Appreciation day.

I never understood the purpose of this and would this be a form of idolatry, since it is an annual celebration of a pastor?

Anyone who thinks that appreciating a pastor at church is idolatry doesn't know what idolatry is.

Most pastors, 80-90% of them, are bi-vocational in churches of 50 members or less.   They get paid very little, really.  They work a job during the week to support their families, but are at the hospital ER at 2:30 in the morning when members of their church call on them.  They visit the sick, counsel, often work as the church janitor, as well. They perform weddings and funerals and visit grieving family members.   Many small churches are single staff member churches where the pastor is the also the secretary and the worship leader.  Many of them juggle their pastoral duties with family duties sometimes, the pastor's family pays the price.  Pastors of small churches don't get time off, much less, paid vacations, generally speaking. In many cases, they live on a shoe-string budget.  But they don't complain because being a pastor isn't career; it's a ministry, a calling of God that they have obeyed. 

Is it so much, is it so bad to just show some appreciation??? 
 

Quote

 

Also, why do they pass around extra collection plates?

Are these a Biblical practice?

 

And so what about collection plates?   Is a church supposed to just exist on air???   How do the utility bills and building repairs get done if offerings are not taken?  How is it that a church is expected to support missionaries, provide youth and children's activities, maintain a clean, safe, place to worship, but everyone complains when the collection plates are passed around???

 

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Guest shiloh357

I am always amused at people who look down their self-righteous snoots at churches and pretend that they are just too spiritual to rub shoulders with other Christians at church and of course, it's the pastor's fault.   If pastor doesn't drive a broken down car, isn't dressed in rags and doesn't subsist on beans and water every day, then he isn't humble enough for those who think it is their job to sit in judgment on him. 

For every 1 pastor who heads up a wealthy mega-church, there are 1,000's of others whose churches don't pay them a salary and they have to word a 40 hour week and juggle a job, pastoring and family life.    Those who just can't go to church because they allegedly can't find a pastor they "respect"  are simply using that as a pretext or a smokescreen for the fact that they are just too lazy to get up on Sunday morning and go to Church.

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16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am always amused at people who look down their self-righteous snoots at churches and pretend that they are just too spiritual to rub shoulders with other Christians at church and of course, it's the pastor's fault.   If pastor doesn't drive a broken down car, isn't dressed in rags and doesn't subsist on beans and water every day, then he isn't humble enough for those who think it is their job to sit in judgment on him. 

For every 1 pastor who heads up a wealthy mega-church, there are 1,000's of others whose churches don't pay them a salary and they have to word a 40 hour week and juggle a job, pastoring and family life.    Those who just can't go to church because they allegedly can't find a pastor they "respect"  are simply using that as a pretext or a smokescreen for the fact that they are just too lazy to get up on Sunday morning and go to Church.

YEP! I decided not to say it, ( in fact I deleted it), but I am sure glad you did say what is true and really needs to be said.

May your bolder expression, your sharing, pierce the heart of any that deny themsleves the experience of corporate worship, and their giving of their presence, and prayers, and aid, and kind fellowship, and helpful support of missionaries, and support of  other saints  worshiping  Jesus who is God!

Praises and a thank you for your bold declaration, may it be heard and heeded.

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9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

JEFF I must always be honest.    IT is so hard to find a true one ,  that if I told you how hard,   you might even gasp.

THEIRS that many false ones out their .   and its darn scary how many have not a clue.  Now I aint been in EVERY church and I aint met every pastor.

BUT here is the scary thing .  ALL Of the ones I have seen or met.................THEY false. AND THAT IS REAL SCARY.   real scary. 

I know I will probably be hounded for saying it , and one of our members here already did, they said they know LOTS of GOOD churches.

and I was like amen.  good.   TILL THEY BROUGHT JOHN PIPER ON and see him as GOOD.  NO WONDER he thinks so many churches are good and aint seeing what I am.

"he thinks so many churches are good and aint seeing what I am."

And praise God for that  brother, thank God indeed.

---------------

The Holy Spirit has led me, actually dragged me, to my salvation, and then to  churches quite varied one from another, and into situations clear across country, and more than once.

Because I am so dumbstruck and in fearful wondrous awe of God's power I follow. I give up career. I give up home. And, I follow to become a small cog in a larger church body with a need for a small cog, that was missing until the Holy Spirit  would bring one to fill in the gears that all would work together for  the good purposes of God.

I will not engage in a false humility. God has chosen to use this seriously  impure lump of clay to do a lot of pushing on a rope to help in bringing  prosperity of purpose in sharing the gospel of Jesus to a few of His local bodies of Christ Jesus. I am so overwhelmed as I look back over some near 45 years of it, that I have near lost my faith, for the certainty of it now is so rock solid I cannot even call it faith. It instead is now an absolute certainty that there is God. There is Jesus who is God. There is eternal life with God. My Lord Jesus has indeed left us God the Holy Spirit as our comforter, in a harsh fallen world, while He prepares a place for us.

I have no apologies for enjoying this wild and hard ride and for the privilege of seeing so much good in the local body of Christ Jesus! I have come to know so many brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, from lay person to elders, teachers pastors, missionaries, speakers, all having at their very core  Jesus. I know their cause to be the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus, each doing so in the way that God has led them individually.

Praise God, maranatha!

 

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