Who do you think negotiates the treaty in Daniel 9:27?

[Dennis1209]

On 11/18/2017 at 6:29 AM, Diaste said:

It's possible all the comments in the above thread, as well as popular thought over the last 180 years, are correct in the sense that some world governing body, or a leader of a current political entity, may indeed be the one who not only negotiates the initial covenant but is the 'mighty', 'strong' ideologue of the covenant. I have my doubts. There is a enormous obstacle to overcome that has nothing to do with peace between Israel and the Palestinians; The Temple.

It's not going to matter how authoritative the world body or influential the world leader; if the Temple construction begins it will offend 22% of the world population. That's a billion and a half people; 1,500,000,000 offended adherents of a religion that has spread to every country, and is the majority religion in 50 countries; many in the Mideast and northern Africa, in relative close proximity to Israel.  In addition, Islamic adherents sit on the boards and councils of the world governing bodies. It's doubtful they could be convinced to act in opposition to the majority of the people to which they are responsible. 

Unless of course they was some extraordinary circumstance convincing them all to change their stance toward the Jewish people and the existence of a Temple in Jerusalem. Fat chance. Sorry, there are two chances of that: slim and none. If Temple construction began and 5% of all Muslims were so offended they decided to attack Israel and stop construction,  75 million people would come against the nation, an overwhelming number and likely a great concern to any world leader or governing body.

Any agreement for peace allowing for rebuilding the Temple would have to be administered by a supremely powerful leader. One who will rally the Muslim population behind this leader either by reason or force. No such leader exists in the age of political correctness, snowflakes, individuality and inward personal agendas. 

If, as I have contended many times in this forum, the beast rises from the dead before the covenant is 'strengthened', the issue is solved through the following scenario. First the beast would have to be Muslim in origin to sway the Islamic adherents with the idea a rebuilt Temple is not sacrilege. Second, the beast would have to be powerful beyond anything we see today. A personal power seen as supernatural, magical, even god-like. A personal power inhibiting many, convincing others, and subduing kings and countries. A personal, transcendent power with the will to match to put down resistance to the agenda of the beast. This scenario is described in Rev 13.

In Rev 13 we see the beast empowered by the dragon, while being healed of a deadly head wound, and receiving the wonder, awe and worship of the world, through the power and authority of the dragon. Such enormous personal power and authority will be an irresistible force impelling the world toward foretold events.  Such power usurps kings, subdues nations, compels obedience, drafts the agreement, secures an accord, strengthens the pact, paves the way for Temple construction, defends the Jewish nation from physical attack, and rushes forward to open rebellion against the Most High.

We should stop looking for fulfillment in the secular world. Every true prophecy is spiritual in origin, overseen by the Lord, brought to fruition in His power and for His ends. Prophecy manifests in our plane of existence, fulfilled in awesome spiritual power. The end of the age will outstrip all other prophecies in a clash of immense proportions, a dimension of immortal power invading the mortal. 

Here's some between slim and none ideas.

Suppose there's a war or two, such as the Ezekiel 38:, 39: war, and a Psalm 83: inner circle nation war with Israel? Suppose the vast majority of Allah's armies are supernaturally destroyed in these wars, prior to or at the very beginning of the tribulation. Suppose one of their Holy cities, Damascus, Syria for example, were completely reduced to ashes in one night here shortly? How much faith would they have in their god Allah then? I believe Islam will become a non-entity here in the very near future.

It would seem to me they would wake up and smell the coffee, and realize without doubt that the God of Israel is the one true living God... The Islamic view of the tribulation is a relatively modern view I believe. I still hold to the traditional view and what the early church fathers and leaders thought. That does not mean I right, but it makes the most scriptural sense to me personally. 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

Try this on for size... I made it and put it into my book. 2300 "mornings and evenings" are the two sacrifices a day that occur when there's a temple/tabernacle. 

 

Hi Abdicate,

Interesting. I agree with some, and glad to see you using God`s numbers, but what are the 1,150 days?  Where did you get that number from?

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

LOL! It's the only thing I wrote...didn't see it? 2300 evenings and mornings... = 1150 days.

So bro, why not just 2300? (evening-morning = 1 day) I suggest you try that & see what you get. Take it from the overall number 2,520 days (7 years). And then I suggest you take the other numbers from the middle of the week. Have a try, even just to humour me and let`s keep going.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Abdicate said:

I have and already rejected it... you cannot have 2300 days of sacrifices... the A of D happens in the middle of the 7 weeks stoping the sacrifices. 2300 days > 3.5 years. Chuck all the theories, use the way God wrote the information and you see, 2300 evening and morning [sacrifices], 1150 days.

You may want to look again at Dan. 8: 14 ` And he said to me, "For 2,300 days, (evening mornings) THEN the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

[Psalms37:4]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:39 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Here's some between slim and none ideas.

Suppose there's a war or two, such as the Ezekiel 38:, 39: war, and a Psalm 83: inner circle nation war with Israel? Suppose the vast majority of Allah's armies are supernaturally destroyed in these wars, prior to or at the very beginning of the tribulation. Suppose one of their Holy cities, Damascus, Syria for example, were completely reduced to ashes in one night here shortly? How much faith would they have in their god Allah then? I believe Islam will become a non-entity here in the very near future.

You're actually right Dennis, definitely on the right track. Israel's next and final war before the tribulation will happen next year. This is actually mentioned in Psalm 118 and Isaiah 26. It'll be an overwhelming war, one she can lose if not for the help Israel will receive. 

Psalm 118:10-14 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ All nations surrounded me,
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹¹ They surrounded me,
Yes, they surrounded me;
But in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹² They surrounded me like bees;
They were quenched like a fire of thorns;
For in the name of the Lord I will destroy them.
¹³ You pushed me violently, that I might fall,
But the Lord helped me.
¹⁴ The Lord is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.

 

Isaiah 26:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² Lord, You will establish peace for us,
For You have also done all our works in us.
¹³ O Lord our God, masters besides You
Have had dominion over us;
But by You only we make mention of Your name.
¹⁴ They are dead, they will not live;
They are deceased, they will not rise.
Therefore You have punished and destroyed them,
And made all their memory to perish.
¹⁵ You have increased the nation, O Lord,
You have increased the nation;
You are glorified;
You have expanded all the borders of the land.

¹⁶ Lord, in trouble they have visited You,
They poured out a prayer when Your chastening was upon them.
¹⁷ As a woman with child
Is in pain and cries out in her pangs,
When she draws near the time of her delivery,
So have we been in Your sight, O Lord.

 

It'll be a huge battle for them and she will sustain heavy loses, particularly from the north, but ultimately at the end Israel will win the war. Israel will be attack from all sides, heaviest from the north, but at the end she 'll be victorious and will expand her borders in all directions. This war will be as significant and will have as great an impact on Israel as the 6-Day war in 1967 and the war of Independence in 1947-49. 

This war will answer Bill Salus' theory on the inner ring nations, Israel's neighboring countries immediately surrounding her.

This war is also vaguely mentioned in Jeremiah 25 in one single verse where it's suppose to happen just before the tribulation, the 70 year mark. It's hard for anyone to catch this one verse in Jeremiah 25 unless one already knew about the prophecy from other scriptures in the bible.

And if anyone is wondering if Jeremiah 25 was a prophecy about the 70 year exile from the Babylonian captivity, no this is a prophecy of our time, a "second 70 year period" of Israel just before the tribulation. 

Jeremiah 25:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ says the Lord, ‘and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 25:9 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

⁹ I will soon send for all the tribes of the north.” This message is from the Lord. “I will soon send for King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He is my servant. I will bring those people against the land of Judah and against the people of Judah. I will bring them against all the nations around you too. I will destroy all those countries. I will make those lands like an empty desert forever. People will see those countries, and whistle at how badly they were destroyed.

 

 

EDIT:

As for Damascus, I see this happening too. I can't say as firmly here so there's some speculation as I can't find other scriptures pinpointing the timing of it's fulfillment, but I do very much believe Isaiah 17 will finally be fulfill next year. There's also a possibility Israel's northern border will expand into Damascus. If not by the next war, definitely by the end of the tribulation. Israel's borders will expand twice: once before and again after the tribulation fulfilling God's promise to Abraham. I've always told others not to expect Isaiah 17 to happen till you see Israel drawn into a war in Syria. The purpose of the Syrian civil war is to bring in directly or indirectly all the nations that will clash in the Middle East during the tribulation. Israel is the last player. Once you see Israel declare war and fight in Syria, the fulfillment of Isaiah 17 is visibly on the horizon because it mentions a war in Syria involving Israel. One enemy Israel will be fighting in Syria when she goes to war is Basher Al-Assad and his government.

 

Isaiah 17:1-3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

17 This is a message about Damascus:

“Damascus is now a city, but it will be destroyed.
    Only ruined buildings will be left there.
² People will leave the cities of Aroer.
    Flocks of sheep will wander freely in those empty towns;
    there will be no one to bother them.
³ The fort cities of Ephraim will be destroyed.
    The government in Damascus will be finished.
Those left in Aram will lose everything,
    just like the people of Israel,” says the Lord All-Powerful.

 

ISRAELI OFFICIAL: IF IRAN EXPANDS IN SYRIA, WE'LL BOMB ASSAD'S PALACE

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-Official-If-Iran-extends-in-Syrian-well-bomb-Assads-palace-503597

 

Israel Threatens To Bomb Assad's Presidential Palace

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-29/israel-threatens-bomb-assads-presidential-palace

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Abdicate said:

And my point? You didn't address it. Do you know how long 2300 days is? 6.38 years! 220 less than 7 years of 30-day months (1260+1260).

My dear Marilyn, try the ESV, it's much better than the KJV (which I use too).

Daniel 8:13-14 (ESV2011)
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?”And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

2,300 sacrifices (one in the morning, one in the evening), then the A of D, then surrendered to be trampled on...

 

Hi Abdicate,

That`s right, I agree 6yrs 4 mths & 20 days, (2,300 days) & 220 days (7 mths & 10 days) over.

I....220.......X................2,300.......................I   (= 7 yrs)

And do you know how long it takes Israel to cleanse the land after the Russian war?  To cleanse the land before they start to sacrifice. (X = sacrifices)

regards, Marilyn.

[Daniel 11:36]

2300 evenings and mornings is equal to 1150 24 hour days

 

[Marilyn C]

20 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

2300 evenings and mornings is equal to 1150 24 hour days

 

Hi Daniel,

And so the temple is cleansed, restored, vindicated? when? (Dan. 8: 14)

Marilyn.

BTW I see we are veering off topic, so perhaps we should start a relevant thread.

[Daniel 11:36]

At the end of the 70th week decreed for Israel .... same as the coming tribulation period

[Marilyn C]

10 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

At the end of the 70th week decreed for Israel .... same as the coming tribulation period

Hi Daniel,

I`ve just started a new thread on this topic. Hope to see you there.

Marilyn.