Lucifers creation and rebellion.

[Jude1:3]

*Helel: A Shining One

הֵילֵל

הֵילֵל  noun masculine appellative shining one, epithet of king of Babylon, בֶּןשָֿׁ֑חַר ׳אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם הIsaiah 14:12 how art thou fallen, shining one, son of dawn ! star of the morning.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1966.htm

 

 

So I guess technicially Helel would be a better name then the Latin "Lucifer".

 

Many people try to say that this verse is not about Satan, but it's obviously about Satan in a spiritual sense. Another verse in Isaiah that is 100% clearly about Satan is Isaiah 27:1  :

In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will Punish Leviathan THE FLEEING SERPENT,
Leviathan THAT TWISTED SERPENT;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

• Isaiah 27:1

 

Now, compare that with Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 

So The Great Dragon was cast out, That Serpent Of Old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

• Revelation 12:9

 

 He laid hold of The Dragon, That Serpent Of Old, Who Is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years

• Revelation 20:2

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Jude1:3

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, Jude1:3 said:

*Helel: A Shining One

הֵילֵל

הֵילֵל  noun masculine appellative shining one, epithet of king of Babylon, בֶּןשָֿׁ֑חַר ׳אֵיךְ נָפַלְתָּ מִשָּׁמַיִם הIsaiah 14:12 how art thou fallen, shining one, son of dawn ! star of the morning.

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/1966.htm

 

 

So I guess technicially Helel would be a better name then the Latin "Lucifer".

 

Many people try to say that this verse is not about Satan, but it's obviously about Satan in a spiritual sense. Another verse in Isaiah that is 100% clearly about Satan is Isaiah 27:1  :

In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will Punish Leviathan THE FLEEING SERPENT,
Leviathan THAT TWISTED SERPENT;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.

• Isaiah 27:1

 

Now, compare that with Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 

So The Great Dragon was cast out, That Serpent Of Old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

• Revelation 12:9

 

 He laid hold of The Dragon, That Serpent Of Old, Who Is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years

• Revelation 20:2

 

 

 

 Don't forget Rev. 20, verse 3, he will be loosed for a little season.
  V. 3, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

[Unfailing Presence]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 4:22 PM, HAZARD said:

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

 

I'm looking for Jesus , not Lucifer , not Adam , not Eve .

In Him alone is all power and love inexhaustible ,glorious victory , and eternal triumph .

Lucifer , Adam , Eve  have none to offer .

Granted it is good to be aware of Lucifer's murderous & hateful nature towards me and you , but by Christian nature my view of life is focused on the spiritual opportunities and abundant blessings from Christ.

Lucifer, Adam , Eve  have none of those to offer either .

 I guess you could say Lucifer offers his own brand of spiritual  opportunities , but I for one would certainly not consider them to be  blessings .

 

                           " And He shall be as the light of the morning , when the sun riseth .

                               Even a morning without clouds , as the tender grass springing out of the earth by clear shining after rain ."    ( 2 Samuel 23 : 4)

                             

 

[HAZARD]

{quote]"Lucifer, Adam , Eve  have none of those to offer either .

 I guess you could say Lucifer offers his own brand of spiritual  opportunities , but I for one would certainly not consider them to be  blessings ."{/quote]"

I agree, they had it all and lost it all.

[Guest]

On 11/17/2017 at 4:22 PM, HAZARD said:

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

Hey Hazard:

I think what turned off most readers of your opening post was this statement above. It may have been quite shocking to some of us.

Is/are there a verse(s) that express that chronology? There are passages of scripture that I see you’re using to back up this claim but I’m not seeing how the pre-Adam timeframe is found there. Your quest to know the truth is admirable, but the scriptures to which you’ve referred, in just this instance, don’t actually support your conclusion. The Genesis narratives of creation do not allow for this chronologically.

I, years ago, did a comprehensive Biblical research on Satan as well. It is a fascinating study, to say the least, and also quite pitiful. However, some of the numerous verses that you and I have both studied are consistent with the omission of the chronology that you have discussed in your posts.. unless you see the timing where we’ve missed it.

I would be interested in how your conclusion (the statement that I quoted) was reached. Specifically, what verse(s)... and how do you see those verses leading us to that conclusion.... what do you personally see that we have overlooked?

shalom

[missmuffet]

I am not familiar with Dake's teachings but if shiloh says what Hazard is posting is Dake's teachings I will trust that.

Question: "What is the Dake Bible?"

Answer: The Dake Bible was first published in 1961 and is the result of the work of a man named Finnis Jennings Dake (1902-1987), a Pentecostal minister. As a result of a criminal conviction, his ordination as a pastor with the Assemblies of God was revoked. He later joined the Church of God but in later years became independent of any denomination.

The Dake Bible itself is an extensive work, with some 35,000 commentary notes and over 50,000 cross references, using the King James Version as its basic text. Most Bible scholars consider Dake’s notes to be the personal viewpoints of Finnis Jennings Dake rather than objective or strictly based on the Bible. Dake wrote from a Charismatic viewpoint, so the Dake Bible definitely is of that persuasion.

There are many study Bibles to choose from, and some are better than others. Many people like to use several different study Bibles when they do an in-depth study, because each set of notes carries with it the personality of the person(s) who helped edit it.

The bottom line is that, like any study Bible, the Dake Bible has its good points and its bad points. Due to its strong Pentecostal/Charismatic emphasis, there are far better study Bibles available than the Dake Bible. The Dake Bible can be useful as part of an overall study, but due to its strong Charismatic emphasis, it should not be used as a primary study tool.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Dake-Bible.html

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, GusWilby said:

Hey Hazard:

I think what turned off most readers of your opening post was this statement above. It may have been quite shocking to some of us.

Is/are there a verse(s) that express that chronology? There are passages of scripture that I see you’re using to back up this claim but I’m not seeing how the pre-Adam timeframe is found there. Your quest to know the truth is admirable, but the scriptures to which you’ve referred, in just this instance, don’t actually support your conclusion. The Genesis narratives of creation do not allow for this chronologically.

I, years ago, did a comprehensive Biblical research on Satan as well. It is a fascinating study, to say the least, and also quite pitiful. However, some of the numerous verses that you and I have both studied are consistent with the omission of the chronology that you have discussed in your posts.. unless you see the timing where we’ve missed it.

I would be interested in how your conclusion (the statement that I quoted) was reached. Specifically, what verse(s)... and how do you see those verses leading us to that conclusion.... what do you personally see that we have overlooked?

shalom

There were two great floods on the earth, both because of rebellion. One was the flood that destroyed the earth after lucifers rebellion and the other because of mans rebellion during Noah's time. They both are very different and had different outcomes. Lucifers flood, everything perished, both man, beast's the sun, moon and stars were darkened, things which never occurred during Noah's flood where Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives and all the animals survived, and also the sun, moon and stars were not darkened. Check these Scriptures out for yourself. I have posted this before, and I believe the scriptures as I read them. They all need to be read to get the big picture.

 

There were two great floods on the Earth. The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, 'L.F.'

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

Rev. 4:11).

In Scripture, all instances of obscuring the sun and bringing darkness are the result of judgment, not creation-which is also true of the two universal floods (Genesis 6:8-8:22; Exodus 10:21-23; Isaiah 5:30; Jeremiah 4:23-26).

All predictions of future darkness depict judgment (Matthew 8:12; Matthew 24:29-31; Rev. 6:12-17; Rev. 8:12; Rev. 9:2; Rev. 16:10; Isaiah 13:10; Joel 2:30-3:16; Amos 5:18-20).

Could we say that Genesis 1:2 is the only place in Scripture where darkness and a universal flood are not an act of judgment? If it isn't an option, then Genesis 1:2 proves that there was a pre-Adamite world destroyed by darkness and flood.

No one questions that Noah's flood was an act of judgment, or doubts the existence of free moral agents before the flood actually came. Why then doubt the existence of a pre-Adamite world which was destroyed by the darkness and flood of Genesis 1:2?

 

 

[hmbld]

Why doubt a pre-adamite world? 

Because it goes against scripture, as has been pointed out countless times. 

[HAZARD]

10 hours ago, hmbld said:

Why doubt a pre-adamite world? 

Because it goes against scripture, as has been pointed out countless times. 

It has been pointed out countless times by people who are scoffers and who are willingly ignorant, as Peter said. Scripture proves it existed, sad thing is, many, as Peter stated, "scoffers," refuse to believe what is written about it.

[hmbld]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Scripture proves it existed, sad thing is, many, as Peter stated, "scoffers," refuse to believe what is written about it.

I don’t know that not believing your theory makes me a “scoffer”.