Worldliness in youth ministry

[BK1110]

14 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

Thank you Justin.

I have a feeling that if I were to confront the situation I would be going it alone. I know some of the older people in the church don't like what is going on in youth ministry, but they aren't really involved in it either. 

Its like people become desensitized to what's going on, it just becomes normal. I bet it was also normal for the money changers to be at the temple, some people probably thought it was messed up. But Jesus went in there flipping tables. He was angry. And im a bit angry about this as well. The leaders are turning the church into a club or hangout place where kids do whatever they want.

I have been gathering some evidence before I confront the leaders. I don't want to go to them with nothing. I took some screenshots of last summer at Christian camp when they painted their faces like zombies. I couldn't find the post where the youth leader boasted about drinking while at camp. 

I was thinking about confronting the leaders if we have an Awana meeting on Tuesday. We don't ever have meetings, but I suggested to the youth pastor that we start having a meeting before club begins so we can share ideas or talk about things needing improved. He said that was a good idea, but that's usually what he says but never follows through. We will see. 

Its hard to not make this about him and his character, im trying to focus on his actions instead. But it's hard. His actions show his heart. He throws fits at his kids, he is rude to his wife and fights with her infront of people, he makes crude jokes, there is so much more. But then it becomes gossip. Several people have complained about him to the senior pastor, and the deacons have discussed letting him go. The hard thing is he is a friend to a lot of them, it would be hard to see him get fired and lose that income. But I think the souls of the teens and children are more important.

I'd like to recommend a video to you. It's a lengthy, great conference that J. Warner Wallace did about the problems of youth ministry, what kids are facing when they get out of it, and what to do about it. It might help. Maybe you can even get the youth minister to see it. I guess we're not supposed to link to things, so I won't. It's on Youtube and the exact title is "Who's Waiting for Your Kids? | Why Students Leave Church | J. Warner Wallace" so just copy and paste that into a Youtube search.

[Debp]

15 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

He throws fits at his kids, he is rude to his wife and fights with her in front of people, he makes crude jokes, there is so much more. 

I wonder if he has ever truly been born again.   If you have a godly senior pastor, I think he should talk with this youth pastor privately, to see if he is a born again Christian.  Or if he has fallen into the flesh somehow, hopefully the senior pastor can help him to recover with the Lord's help.

Can you voice your concerns to the senior pastor or other leaders?

[bornagain2011]

BK, I will watch that video as soon as I can. I watched a documentary about the topic it was called Divided. I shared it on Facebook. I've been watching some videos and reading some articles about the flaws with having youth ministry. I think from now on i will keep my older girls with me for church. They need to get used to sitting in church. I may even keep our 3 year old with us as well.

Deb,

People have spoken to the senior pastor and youth pastor about these things. I will as well. The youth pastor has expressed concern that several teens have left our church to join another one. He needs to know why. Some teens can't handle his large personality, and some parents have pulled their teens out because of the immaturity of the youth group.

So right now Im like, "well, do i stay and try to help? Or do i move on? Or do I stay and be completely disconnected from youth ministry?"

Yesterday I was thinking about all of these things when it kind of dawned on me, I thought of a new model for our church. Instead of Sunday school being split up where youth go downstairs etc, why not have all females upstairs, and all males downstairs. The women can disciple and lead the younger ones and the older men can do the same for the younger men and boys. We could teach the girls life skills etc. This seems biblical.

And then during service all families cam be together.

And instead of a twice a week youth thing, we could do family bible studies at church. .maybe every Wednesday we can split into groups of 3 families together to study scripture.

This would greatly help our financial stress. We wouldn't have to pay for expensive youth programs etc. And it would bring families together. When teens and children are separated from their parents it creates a subculture where immaturity and childishness is allowed to continue. They need to be integrated back into the church as a family.

I am excited to share my ideas with the pastor, but hesitant because I don't want them to think Im jumping in and telling them how to run things.

Is the youth pastor saved? I wonder sometimes. But I think he is very backsliden.  He has admitted as a joke that he only reads his bible when he is forced to give a sermon. Sometimes he will say things that make me believe he is truly saved, and he sometimes gets emotional about the things of God. But he is narcissistic and fleshly.

He almost lost his job last year due to budgeting. We almost couldn't afford him anymore. I don't want him to lose his job, I want to see him grow and change. My husband and I care about him, but he needs to understand how his actions and how he runs the ministry is failing kids and driving people away from the church.

[Wayne222]

I think you have to weigh what he is doing. I mean having fun is a good thing for kids. Are they taught bible lessons? Do they have a grasp on why Jesus died for the work. And are they taught to be godly?. If it's all fun fun fun. And not much instructions in Christ. Then the Senior pastor should look to make corrections.  Don't leave and not try to correct this.

[bornagain2011]

It seems like a lot of immaturity and foolishness being allowed, not just games. And yes, there is about 10 minutes of lesson sprinkled in somewhere. 

Im not sure how I would begin addressing this. Not sure who I would talk to. And I feel like I would be standing alone. Which I guess would be fine, but it makes me second guess whether my worries are legitimate.

I feel convicted now about being in our church's youth ministry, but I need to at least finish out this year. I think. 

 

[Debp]

On 11/19/2017 at 12:24 PM, bornagain2011 said:

BK, I will watch that video as soon as I can. I watched a documentary about the topic it was called Divided. I shared it on Facebook. I've been watching some videos and reading some articles about the flaws with having youth ministry. I think from now on i will keep my older girls with me for church. They need to get used to sitting in church. I may even keep our 3 year old with us as well.

Deb,

People have spoken to the senior pastor and youth pastor about these things. I will as well. The youth pastor has expressed concern that several teens have left our church to join another one. He needs to know why. Some teens can't handle his large personality, and some parents have pulled their teens out because of the immaturity of the youth group.

So right now Im like, "well, do i stay and try to help? Or do i move on? Or do I stay and be completely disconnected from youth ministry?"

Yesterday I was thinking about all of these things when it kind of dawned on me, I thought of a new model for our church. Instead of Sunday school being split up where youth go downstairs etc, why not have all females upstairs, and all males downstairs. The women can disciple and lead the younger ones and the older men can do the same for the younger men and boys. We could teach the girls life skills etc. This seems biblical.

And then during service all families cam be together.

And instead of a twice a week youth thing, we could do family bible studies at church. .maybe every Wednesday we can split into groups of 3 families together to study scripture.

This would greatly help our financial stress. We wouldn't have to pay for expensive youth programs etc. And it would bring families together. When teens and children are separated from their parents it creates a subculture where immaturity and childishness is allowed to continue. They need to be integrated back into the church as a family.

I am excited to share my ideas with the pastor, but hesitant because I don't want them to think Im jumping in and telling them how to run things.

Is the youth pastor saved? I wonder sometimes. But I think he is very backsliden.  He has admitted as a joke that he only reads his bible when he is forced to give a sermon. Sometimes he will say things that make me believe he is truly saved, and he sometimes gets emotional about the things of God. But he is narcissistic and fleshly.

He almost lost his job last year due to budgeting. We almost couldn't afford him anymore. I don't want him to lose his job, I want to see him grow and change. My husband and I care about him, but he needs to understand how his actions and how he runs the ministry is failing kids and driving people away from the church.

Well, why don't you go ahead and talk it all over with the Senior Pastor.

Also, about the youth pastor saying he only reads his Bible when he has to give a sermon, I wonder what seminary he attended?  I only went to Bible College but we were taught in Spiritual Life class that the daily Quiet Time is the most important thing....our relationship with Christ.

[brakelite]

On 20/11/2017 at 7:24 AM, bornagain2011 said:

BK, I will watch that video as soon as I can. I watched a documentary about the topic it was called Divided. I shared it on Facebook. I've been watching some videos and reading some articles about the flaws with having youth ministry. I think from now on i will keep my older girls with me for church. They need to get used to sitting in church. I may even keep our 3 year old with us as well.

Deb,

People have spoken to the senior pastor and youth pastor about these things. I will as well. The youth pastor has expressed concern that several teens have left our church to join another one. He needs to know why. Some teens can't handle his large personality, and some parents have pulled their teens out because of the immaturity of the youth group.

So right now Im like, "well, do i stay and try to help? Or do i move on? Or do I stay and be completely disconnected from youth ministry?"

Yesterday I was thinking about all of these things when it kind of dawned on me, I thought of a new model for our church. Instead of Sunday school being split up where youth go downstairs etc, why not have all females upstairs, and all males downstairs. The women can disciple and lead the younger ones and the older men can do the same for the younger men and boys. We could teach the girls life skills etc. This seems biblical.

And then during service all families cam be together.

And instead of a twice a week youth thing, we could do family bible studies at church. .maybe every Wednesday we can split into groups of 3 families together to study scripture.

This would greatly help our financial stress. We wouldn't have to pay for expensive youth programs etc. And it would bring families together. When teens and children are separated from their parents it creates a subculture where immaturity and childishness is allowed to continue. They need to be integrated back into the church as a family.

I am excited to share my ideas with the pastor, but hesitant because I don't want them to think Im jumping in and telling them how to run things.

Is the youth pastor saved? I wonder sometimes. But I think he is very backsliden.  He has admitted as a joke that he only reads his bible when he is forced to give a sermon. Sometimes he will say things that make me believe he is truly saved, and he sometimes gets emotional about the things of God. But he is narcissistic and fleshly.

He almost lost his job last year due to budgeting. We almost couldn't afford him anymore. I don't want him to lose his job, I want to see him grow and change. My husband and I care about him, but he needs to understand how his actions and how he runs the ministry is failing kids and driving people away from the church.

Those are great ideas...we do that in our church: only on Friday nights. And don't ever think you are over-reacting ...there is a special blessing for those who sigh and cry for the abominations done in Israel...and millstones waiting for those who offend the young. Cry aloud...spare not...

[existential mabel]

Quote

I feel like I need to stay in awana this year because they might not be able to find a replacement for me, and I really care about these kids.

 

Should I confront the youth pastor and his wife and just say I don't think we should be mixing wordliness with ministry? Am I overreacting? 

The trouble with worldliness is that we have to be determined and steadfast to resist the seduction. For instance these days it’s so much worse than 2 decades ago. We can’t escape the seduction its on tv, radio, computer etc oh and social media and that can be the biggest cess pit there is imo. folk will say stuff on there that they would never say irl.

 

Also you have to ask yourself why is the church perpetuating the worldly when its not biblical and good on you for caring about the youngsters.

 

The conclusion that springs to mind is  "Be in the world, but not of the world"

 

John 15:19King James Version (KJV)

 

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

 

John 17:14-16King James Version (KJV)

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

 

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

 

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

 

That’s good gathering evidence facts are essential. He sounds immature and needs supervision to develop. And he is it seems illustrating a lot of unbiblical characteristics which will only get worse as he goes on in this ministry.

[bornagain2011]

13 hours ago, Debp said:

Well, why don't you go ahead and talk it all over with the Senior Pastor.

Also, about the youth pastor saying he only reads his Bible when he has to give a sermon, I wonder what seminary he attended?  I only went to Bible College but we were taught in Spiritual Life class that the daily Quiet Time is the most important thing....our relationship with Christ.

He went to word of life in new York, and also Tennessee temple.

I found a couple from Baptist Network Northwest, their names are Pete and Debt Steel.They have been to our church before. They help the churches with conflict and growth. I've been wanting to contact them for a little while. But now I have even more confidence because of mounting apostasy in our church. The only thing that makes me nervous is that he is really involved in training and counseling youth minister, which could be good, or bad.

Please pray for me!! I think I might be giving them a call. 

[Debp]

5 hours ago, bornagain2011 said:

He went to word of life in new York, and also Tennessee temple.

I found a couple from Baptist Network Northwest, their names are Pete and Debt Steel.They have been to our church before. They help the churches with conflict and growth. I've been wanting to contact them for a little while. But now I have even more confidence because of mounting apostasy in our church. The only thing that makes me nervous is that he is really involved in training and counseling youth minister, which could be good, or bad.

Please pray for me!! I think I might be giving them a call. 

Said a prayer just now.  Let us know what happens.