Spiritual Condition - Churches

[Marilyn C]

18 minutes ago, Debp said:

My Christian friends mainly live out of State so we sometimes  talk on the phone, etc.   I did go to Bible College in the early 1970s.  Also, I am caring for my 87 year old mother who is home bound but she is a Christian so we can talk, etc, about things.  I  help moderate at another forum so have a few good friends there.

The young Koreans were extremely nice...but I am 67 and they are in their 20s.  Also, I know the leadership at that church would not allow them to be with me since I am not going there now....went there for 3 years until I got ill in January.  (Doing much, much better health wise now!  Thank God!  Maybe God's way of getting me out of there?)

One of the young Koreans gals stopped attending that church and started a church in her house which she rented with other girls.  They rent in a poorer area so they can  invite their neighbors (mainly Hispanic) to attend church in their house.  The same young lady also ministered in the slums  of Brazil for about a year.   A very nice young lady...

 

P.S.  About the two liberal pastors (one gay and the other saying the Bible has been proven wrong), I did confront them about these things. 

Hi Debp,

Thanks for sharing about your life. It`s good to get to know each other. I`m out today but would love to chat further & learn of each other.

God bless, Marilyn.

[Dennis1209]

Any church or Pastor that states and / or teaches and preaches the Bible isn't the inerrant, inspired and infallible Word of God, and God made errors in His Word. Woe to him and those that believe that lie! Revelation 22: 18 - 19 comes to mind. The apostate and ecumenical church are becoming the norm these days, as people want their ears tickled to hear what they want to hear, and not the whole council of God and the narrow gate of Jesus Christ as the only way to Salvation.  

Who would of thunk the Bible has precisely warned us of the days we are now living in? 

Knowing all the preceding, not long ago I sincerely repented of my sins and worldly living and asked the Lord for forgiveness and return to His fold. Vowing to live the rest of my life walking after Him. I longed to attend a Bible believing Church that believed and preached the Gospel of Christ. With all humbleness and sincerity of a lowly heart, I prayed and asked the Lord to direct me to a church He would have me attend. Praise the Lord, He quickly answered my prayer and I almost immediately landed in a wonderful God fearing, Gospel preaching, filled with the love of Christ Church with loving brother's and sister's of the Lord. Amen!

Shortly thereafter I came to find out this small country Church was established in 1824, with a history filled full of people and Pastors that were and are faithful to the Word of God and love Him.

I don't attend Church to hear a message of what men think and their perverted opinions. I don't attend Church to hear there's more than one way to Heaven. I don't attend Church to hear Buddha, Allah, Baal, etc. are the same God by different names. I don't attend Church to make myself feel better.

I personally attend Church to worship, praise and sing hymns and give glory to the One True Living God whom saved my worthless soul. To hear a 100% Biblical message from God's inerrant Word that applies to my life and improve my walk with Christ and the sacrifice He personally made for me. I love the joy, blessings and fellowship associated with the gathering of brother's and sister's of Christ, as we are the heirs and family of God. 

Satan and his minions are the princes and powers currently on this earth. Their demonic lies and false doctrines are deceiving many, many churches today. Being deceived means being lied to without you even knowing it because you want to believe a lie. Anyway, that's how I perceive what's going on in many of our churches today.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Dennis1209

[JohnD]

On 11/18/2017 at 2:28 AM, Debp said:

Just curious about the spiritual condition of churches in your area?

In my area I have experienced some sad things happening in neighborhood churches.

One church I attended for at least 30 years had wonderful pastors.  Then they brought in a pastor who was a missionary with his wife in Mexico, so he could reach out to the Hispanics in our area.   That was fine, but after awhile, this pastor started to promote the gay agenda from the pulpit!  And alot of people in the congregation didn't really know the Bible or they just listened to what he was saying as being right.    After awhile they started to sing two crazy "gay" hymns!  That was the final straw for me and I left that church...they later became a "More Light" church (supports gay agenda).

Years later the pastor wrote everyone a letter that he was gay, he divorced his wife, and he eventually married another man!  After a brief stint in secular education, he became an Episcopal priest. 

After leaving the above church, I went to another neighborhood church.  Again, the pastors were great....very good sermons!  I loved the reverent worship service.  But the congregation kept getting rid of the good pastors!    They finally got one from Texas....at first he preached on general topics so he wasn't showing his true colors then.

Finally, in one sermon he said a Bible verse was wrong!   I was shocked!   I approached him about what he had said in the coffee hour.  He told me, "Oh, the Bible has been proved wrong in many ways by science.".   I stopped going there after that statement.   Now and then I went back to see if he had changed...but  he was always making another strange remark about Bible believing Christians, etc.   One sermon he did on wisdom, he said it came from life experiences...no mention of God!  So of course, I didn't go back there.

There's more...but will just leave you with the two above examples.

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

Hard to know where to begin.

Don't know if you are old enough to remember the late Dr. Walter Martin. He was an excellent Bible teacher and a leading apologist. Google the old John Ankerberg show with his name or go to his daughter Jill's tribute website to her father www.waltermartin.org to listen to hours of his sermons. He hailed from Los Angeles (actually San Juan Capistrano in Orange County).

Martin stated on the Ankerberg show before his death in 1989 that the Church has been in a state of apostasy for over fifty years.

Me being a student of his (through recorded or broadcast messages since the mid 80's) undertook this as an assignment to validate. Bible says prove all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and to test even the spirits (1 John 4:1). And the only way to adequately do that is by the scriptures (Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Hold the Bible up to 99.99% of all churches (every denomination Jewish or Gentile) and there is a major difference in them and scripture.

That's the problem.

And I found Martin's claim not only true but extremely conservative. I would say the Church has been in apostasy for over 1500 years (with the advent of Emperor Constantine). There are differing versions, but I gather that his mother Helena was a believer in Jesus. And about the time he had to establish a second Capital city over the empire (which was crumbling), Constantine had either a vision or an alleged conversion experience (though evidence to the contrary exists in that he died a sun worshiper). And it was olly olly oxen free for Christians who had been persecuted and hunted down into an underground until then. Come out, come out, wherever you are. And his mother and he set out to make Christianity the state religion of Rome. Helena in particular undertook the duties of religion building.

It was she who determined the wilderness wandering  of the Israelites was in the Sinai peninsula rather than Arabia (Saudi Arabia) as the Bible indicates (Galatians 4:25). The peninsula was named Sinai after she picked the spot, BTW. Archaeology supports Saudi location Jabal Al Lawz (Google for yourself). She was a busy lady as she also picked the spot of Jesus' crucifixion and burial (Church of the Holy Sepulcher) and so on. Some good actually came from the actual Christians coming out from hiding and being able to compare scripture with scripture. But a lot of Roman ecumenism (to appease locals conquered by the empire) was blended into the formerly Jewish faith... which the Romanized Church leaders expunged from the faith as quickly as they could.  Some speak of the rise and fall and one day return of the Holy Roman Empire.  What rose and fell was the Roman Empire or actually the empty shell. Within a snake had already hatched in the Roman Catholic Church.

Dr. Martin did not go this far in his studies of Roman Catholicism (which he said at one point the theology of which almost sent him to hell). But he was no fan of the Roman Church. he often debated their scholars. Also at the site I mentioned above. A prominent Bible teacher on the radio who I will not name because I cannot find his exact quote. But one day listening to his daily broadcast he said about the Roman Catholic Church that the devil could not lick the Church so he joined the Church.

 

   

 

 

 

[Gentle Heart]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths."

This passage confirms what I stated earlier in this post...that the "apostasy" is alive and well on planet earth.

[JohnD]

The Roman Empire never actually fell. The empty shell simply collapsed. In its place is the Imperial Religion of Rome (known as Roman Catholicism). Think of it... still has the capital city of Rome. Instead of an emperor there is a Pope. Instead of a senate there is the body of Cardinals. Instead of regional governors, Bishops.

Martin's exposé of Roman Catholicism and its continual contradiction of papal decrees and bulls often touched on how unbiblical Roman Catholicism is. Virtually every error or contradiction or disagreement in Christendom has to do with who is and who is not submitting to the Word of God being the final court of arbitration. And the Protestants did not reform nearly enough from the Church of Rome. Many of the early Protestant denominations appear to be popeless catholic churches. Most non-denomination Churches bring Roman traditions with them. As do some Messianics.

Some folks are too ecstatic that a Jew would believe in anyone or anything that smacks of Jesus Christ that they will not press them very hard on heretical issues (like not believing in the deity of Christ). 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 and Galatians 1:8-9 show that any old jesus cannot save! 

So where am I going with this?

You should not be surprised at how the Church Organization based on traditions of men that sometimes got most things right unravel sometimes before your very eyes.

Mark 7:7-13 states that the traditions of man nullify the Word of God.

We have an entire Old Testament testifying in part how this was tried and failed. And the rejection of Jesus in the Gospels and Acts and throughout the ministry of Paul... all based on the traditions of men who denied the Jews their Messiah. Now we have a Church Organization preventing the Church Organism from the same thing the same way through the traditions of man.

2 Peter 1:20-21 states the first imperative. God's Word is God's to inspire and God's to interpret. All scripture came by the means prescribed in verse 21. And "prophecy" itself is merely to profess a thing. The thing being professed is the Word of God which is sometimes about the past, sometimes about the present, sometimes about the future. So "prophecy" does not mean only predictive prophecy.

1 John 4:1 tells us to test the spirits even that which we believe is the Holy Spirit... it may not be him.

Acts 17:11 / 2 Timothy 3:16-17 direct us to the Bible to do that testing.

You will find this simple formula is opposed far more than most realize or admit in the Church Organization, because traditionally they say Mary was immaculately conceived and is co-redemptrix with Christ, or that one must speak in tongues to be saved, or water baptized, or this or that... even straight (heterosexual)...

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Sadly I know many more homosexuals who would never consider faith in Christ from the way theirs has been singled out as the one unpardonable sin, than those who believe Jesus loves them as much as he loved us before we believed in him. There is a world of difference between what I just said and a "gay agenda" which I am sure you saw first hand, Debp. But there are Christian outreaches to homosexuals (which function best below the radar). Maybe I have it wrong, but I believe we should get people saved by believing in Christ and let the Holy Spirit deal with them as he deals with us. 

 

[Debp]

Yes, I am familiar with Dr. Walter Martin....his Kingdom of the Cults was used in personal evangelism class.

Also, I agree we should love homosexuals just like we love any of our neighbors.  As you understood, JohnD, I was not against them coming into church to hear the Word of God...rather I was against a pastor promoting the gay lifestyle as being alright, and leading many in the congregation to think it is acceptable.

 

[Neighbor]

Used to listen to  Martin on radio, while in the limo waiting to pick up families. He is one of the first  Christians I enjoyed hearing, though I listened to them for a living all day long. I use  some of his writing as reference material even today.

Zola Levitt fought against the "falling away" of seminaries for many years, the seminaries with their new found enlightenment of replacement theology. His material is available on the Zola Levitt Ministries website archives of  their publications.

 I am still encouraged! For the Holy Spirit has led me to  churches  ( plural) over the years where I have learned much that is valued by me today. I have been with the same local body of Christ for twenty years, and now see as elders men that were children attending the school at this local body of Christ when I first arrived.

The local church here sustains not based upon any man but upon a principle, that of adhering to first century  church order as closely as may be discerned from the Bible. That principle has us with  eleven elders each qualified to teach the entirety of the Bible with knowledge of Jesus as our Lord and savior, and of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which proper discernment of the word, the Bible, is made possible.

So I see a growing body of Christ Jesus with  babies, children, youth , adults , seniors all flourishing in the word of God. And I am encouraged! Plus I read that no matter how bad  "it" gets there is a remnant that is saved out by the mercy and grace of God, and that there will at the worst of it perhaps, definitely come the 144,000, strong Jewish personalities, with the gospel of our Lord Christ Jesus.

Further I suggest  the Americans (USA) that lament over the church  may have need of a wider scope of awareness, plus a telescope into the future that is Israel. There is so much excessive near sighted focus on the local churches and denominations that I think the greater view of history to come is not accounted for though it needs to be.

Israel is the core that reveals. The Bible comes alive when looking into Israel . The concern over an American church of one sort or another is but a comparatively minor distraction, maybe even a  diversional tactic of the enemy the evil one to keep focus of Americans focused on themselves and off Israel.  

My suggestion is; keep personal  focus strongly upon God's predestined and sovereign work,  and especially upon Israel as each saint reads, prays, and thinks, in seeking knowledge of the word of God.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Neighbor

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] the last stage of Church history shall be many which profess Christ shall be indifferent to right or wrong; good or evil; sin or righteousness.  The majority shall accept the modifying of righteousness to accommodate sin, whereas few will not accept anything above that which is written: which is why many are called, but only few are chosen.

[simplejeff]

6 minutes ago, lastofall said:

[for me anyway] the last stage of Church history shall be many which profess Christ shall be indifferent to right or wrong; good or evil; sin or righteousness.  The majority shall accept the modifying of righteousness to accommodate sin, whereas few will not accept anything above that which is written: which is why many are called, but only few are chosen.

This is of course from Scripture,  True, and verified by the last 2000 years of history of the church.