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Spiritual Condition - Churches


Debp

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Just curious about the spiritual condition of churches in your area?

In my area I have experienced some sad things happening in neighborhood churches.

One church I attended for at least 30 years had wonderful pastors.  Then they brought in a pastor who was a missionary with his wife in Mexico, so he could reach out to the Hispanics in our area.   That was fine, but after awhile, this pastor started to promote the gay agenda from the pulpit!  And alot of people in the congregation didn't really know the Bible or they just listened to what he was saying as being right.    After awhile they started to sing two crazy "gay" hymns!  That was the final straw for me and I left that church...they later became a "More Light" church (supports gay agenda).

Years later the pastor wrote everyone a letter that he was gay, he divorced his wife, and he eventually married another man!  After a brief stint in secular education, he became an Episcopal priest. 

After leaving the above church, I went to another neighborhood church.  Again, the pastors were great....very good sermons!  I loved the reverent worship service.  But the congregation kept getting rid of the good pastors!    They finally got one from Texas....at first he preached on general topics so he wasn't showing his true colors then.

Finally, in one sermon he said a Bible verse was wrong!   I was shocked!   I approached him about what he had said in the coffee hour.  He told me, "Oh, the Bible has been proved wrong in many ways by science.".   I stopped going there after that statement.   Now and then I went back to see if he had changed...but  he was always making another strange remark about Bible believing Christians, etc.   One sermon he did on wisdom, he said it came from life experiences...no mention of God!  So of course, I didn't go back there.

There's more...but will just leave you with the two above examples.

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

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3 hours ago, Debp said:

Just curious about the spiritual condition of churches in your area?

[edited out for space]

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

To some extent, it depends on the denomination of the church.  Some denominations have started to come under the influence of those for whom the warm fuzzy symbolism of Christianity is the main point.  Christian words such as "faith", "redemption", or even "God" are not used for their objective meaning (of something that God has actually done), they are used for their warm fuzzy emotional connotation.  Faith becomes some sort of nebulous feeling we have that gives us purpose in life.  Redemption is finding a way out of bad things that have happened.  Even "God" becomes a word to describe our feeling toward the universe in general.  Whatever meaning those words have for you is what is important, not having some objective meaning that most of us agree on.  If it has meaning for you, that is what is important; not that it is actually real.

Not every minister who stands in the pulpit and talks about faith is talking about trust and confidence in the actual Maker and Creator of everything.  Some are using faith as a meaningless word that is more related to hope and optimism and feeling like we have purpose and meaning from some emotional experience that makes us feel better.  My sense is that a number of seminaries are now dominated with this viewpoint.

I've met pastors in these types of denominations.  Some are born-again, decided God was calling them to ministry, went to seminary, became "educated" with this type of outlook on things, and spend a lifetime trying to balance the reality of what God has done against how they were educated.  Some of them spend their lives trying to make a spiritual difference in people's lives where they are at.  Others leave for other denominations.   Other ministers are basically social activists who see the organization and symbolism of Christianity as a tool to instigate social change and teach some sort of vague spirituality based on trying to figure out what makes you feel like you have purpose and meaning in life.

Some Christians have the view that all Christians should only belong to "Bible-believing" churches and denominations.  Other Christians have the view that they are going to make a difference where they are at.  They are actively fighting for the heart and souls of their denomination.  They are Christians;  they know God and are testifying to what He has done in their lives in a place where some people need to hear it.

Some Christians do like the reverent and traditional type of worship of some denominations.  Sadly, these are often the denominations where the "faith without needing a real God" type of view is often most prevalent.

That's my take on it.  It's not so much that churches are getting crazy.  It's been an ongoing process where some denominations are slowly being "educated" into a form of "Christianity" that doesn't need God.  Some Christians wash their hands of it and leave; others stick around to contend for the faith and refuse to give up.  I've been in both situations at various times in my life.  There are times you can make a difference; there are times you cannot.

For me, the real fight is not over the particular details of each and every statement that is made.  You can spend a lifetime arguing and getting lost in the details and accomplishing little.   In these situations, I think that the real fight is over whether or not Christianity is about a real God Who has done real things in the world.  When I am interacting with people like this, I try to focus on the reality of God and His acts that I've seen in my life.  Getting into a discussion on details of the faith is usually useless because they have redefined most of the language away from objective meaning into emotional connotations.  If I say "born-again", they hear "having had a meaningful spiritual experience of some sort".  If I talk about science, they hear "to believe the Bible about science means that I have to believe that the earth is flat".  If I talk about Christ's redeeming work, they hear "the symbolism of redemption is powerful and teaches us that we can change ourselves in positive ways."  The reality is that the very language we usually use to talk about Christianity has been redefined away.  We need to use normal everyday language and clearly describe what we've seen God do.  As soon as they go into a "well good for you, it's good you have found meaning and purpose for your life" mode, it's time to force it back to a "no, this is real!" type of discussion.   As soon as we get into an argument over each and every detail we disagree with, we are fighting the battle on their terms.  When we are talking about what God has actually done in our lives and other people's lives, we are fighting the battle on our terms.

I try to talk about answered prayers that I have seen and more object happenings I've observed.  Tossing out Bible verses and theological jargon usually ends up not being very successful because they've been "educated" into seeing it in a subjectively emotional manner.  I tell my story and what I've seen in everyday language that they cannot misunderstand or explain away.  I let them see the fruit of the Spirit in my life and plainly talk about what God has done.  To me, it's about giving testimony of what God has done and letting His Holy Spirit start convicting and drawing them to Him.

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2 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

That's my take on it.  It's not so much that churches are getting crazy.  It's been an ongoing process where some denominations are slowly being "educated" into a form of "Christianity" that doesn't need God.

That seems to be the crux of the matter. This seminary stuff has caused many a pastor untold grief. It becomes a third-hand reiteration of second-hand information that is the party line. But that is a whole new subject.
The spirit of man has caused the Holy Spirit to depart. Just as Wigglesworth said.

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16 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

If I talk about science, they hear "to believe the Bible about science means that I have to believe that the earth is flat".

1.  "Science" isn't an ENTITY or a RESULT, it's a Method: The Scientific Method.

If you talk about "Science" in "church"??  Why would you?   It's tantamount to bringing up Gasket Sealing at a Rib-Eye Conference.

How does it go, someone's talking about how Christ is the Way, Truth, and the Life and you chime in with what is the Dependent Variable?? (I doubt that you even know what it means to begin with).

It's Non-Sequitur... on Nuclear Steroids!!

 

And forgive me but, What on Earth does this mean...

2. they hear "to believe the Bible about science" ??

To believe the Bible about science?? :huh:  The Bible doesn't speak to The Scientific Method ("Science"). However, it does speak directly to Pseudo-Science...

(Timothy 6:20) O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.

Is that what you're talking about? (most assuredly Rhetorical)

 

3.  The Flat/Non-Spinning/Domed Geocentric Earth (or the 'Spinning-Ball' religion) isn't "Science" to begin with.

To know with absolute certainty that HE Created a Flat/Non-Spinning/Domed Geocentric Earth is to just take God at His Word.  Would you like ~65 Examples??

 

As for the OP specifically, I live Smack Dab in the middle of what is called "The Bible Belt" (Central Missoura).  I have been in and out of at least 50 "churches" in the past 10 years.  They are literally infested with the Paradox (brought to you by the serpent): 

1.  Take God at His Word, OR...

2.  Believe the Nonsensical Buffoonery from the Pseudo-Sciences -- ( astronomy, astrophysics, cosmology, paleontology, geology, anthropology, archaeology, evolutionary biology (lol), theoretical physics.) ...That's Pontificated from Rooftops, over and over and over and over and over again.

Both can't be True.

Ya see, the majority of people know with absolute certainty that there is "A CREATOR" because they can 'Fog a Mirror' (and God has shown them:  See: Romans Chapter 1). HOWEVER, Indoctrination (no matter how moronic :rolleyes:) from Diapers is an EXTREMELY Powerful influence and tactic...most can't break-away.  So many "Mind Numbingly" attempt to reconcile The Word of God with "Science" (aka: Pseudo-Science) which breeds utter chaos and discord!!  It'd be easier reconciling Married Bachelors.

99.99999999999% of the Problem is Right Here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

 

Let's Reason Together, shall we??   God has already warned and told you that satan is the most beautiful and WISEST of all his Creations.  Moreover, God has given you satan's Two Common Tactics...

1.  Create Doubt ("Hath God Said...??").

2.  Outright Denial of The Word of God ("...you will not surely die".)

There's nothing new under the sun.

So, put yourself in satan's shoes:  The Creator of the Universe has just Declared War on You (YIKES !!!) See: Genesis 3, and the vehicle of your destruction is the 'seed of the woman' (Jesus Christ).

So what are you gonna do??  I don't know bout you, but practically and tactically my 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/180,000th ect act is gonna do everything in my power to CORRUPT THE SEED OF THE WOMAN.  'duh' Right?  (See: Genesis 6, Flood, Entire Old Testament).

satan tried and failed miserably but the end is not yet (Another Topic).  He knows that his 'goose is cooked' and since he hates MAN with a passion, he's gonna do everything in his power to take as many down with him as he can, so it's back to the Ole Tried and True...

1.  Create Doubt ("Hath God Said...??").

2.  Outright Denial of The Word of God ("...you will not surely die".)

We already know he and his minions are the "Powers Behind" all the Empires (Governments) of the World, Right?  Cause again, GOD TOLD YOU !!! (See: Daniel Chapter 10)

So do you think that satan and his minions behind the World's Governments are gonna focus their attack on:

A.  The Maytag Repairman et al.

or 

B. ALL the Upper Echelon of: The Higher Institutes of Learning (Infiltrating Public Schools), Media, Seminaries, Hollywood, ect ect ... Maybe employ some 'Artistic Licence' with Secular History a bit?

????????

pssst...

WAKE UP !!!!!                                          

 

Hope it Helps

Have a Nice Day.

 

 

Edited by Steve_S
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10 hours ago, Debp said:

Just curious about the spiritual condition of churches in your area?

In my area I have experienced some sad things happening in neighborhood churches.

One church I attended for at least 30 years had wonderful pastors.  Then they brought in a pastor who was a missionary with his wife in Mexico, so he could reach out to the Hispanics in our area.   That was fine, but after awhile, this pastor started to promote the gay agenda from the pulpit!  And alot of people in the congregation didn't really know the Bible or they just listened to what he was saying as being right.    After awhile they started to sing two crazy "gay" hymns!  That was the final straw for me and I left that church...they later became a "More Light" church (supports gay agenda).

Years later the pastor wrote everyone a letter that he was gay, he divorced his wife, and he eventually married another man!  After a brief stint in secular education, he became an Episcopal priest. 

After leaving the above church, I went to another neighborhood church.  Again, the pastors were great....very good sermons!  I loved the reverent worship service.  But the congregation kept getting rid of the good pastors!    They finally got one from Texas....at first he preached on general topics so he wasn't showing his true colors then.

Finally, in one sermon he said a Bible verse was wrong!   I was shocked!   I approached him about what he had said in the coffee hour.  He told me, "Oh, the Bible has been proved wrong in many ways by science.".   I stopped going there after that statement.   Now and then I went back to see if he had changed...but  he was always making another strange remark about Bible believing Christians, etc.   One sermon he did on wisdom, he said it came from life experiences...no mention of God!  So of course, I didn't go back there.

There's more...but will just leave you with the two above examples.

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

That story is disheartening and quite frankly not surprising considering the age we're living in. 

I live in New England and if I bothered with the churches, I'd expect much of the same, the nearest church to me was a pro-LGBT church, which recently got converted into a daycare.

Christianity is getting so unpopular that we're turning a lot of our churches into condos.

I figure that Rural churches are much better than the ones in the cities, as cities tend to be very liberal throughout the west, but I don't have easy access to those. 

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10 hours ago, Debp said:

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

It is just your neighborhood....

if your neighborhood is the WORLD.  Yes,  worldwide.

Willingly, wittingly, directly opposed to Yahweh's Word (the BIBLE) and rejecting JESUS.

All summed up, or being summed up,  (all the evil becoming full to overflowing)  in baby lon.

While the few, the true, remain true. (Revelation)

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11 hours ago, Debp said:

Just curious about the spiritual condition of churches in your area?

In my area I have experienced some sad things happening in neighborhood churches.

One church I attended for at least 30 years had wonderful pastors.  Then they brought in a pastor who was a missionary with his wife in Mexico, so he could reach out to the Hispanics in our area.   That was fine, but after awhile, this pastor started to promote the gay agenda from the pulpit!  And alot of people in the congregation didn't really know the Bible or they just listened to what he was saying as being right.    After awhile they started to sing two crazy "gay" hymns!  That was the final straw for me and I left that church...they later became a "More Light" church (supports gay agenda).

Years later the pastor wrote everyone a letter that he was gay, he divorced his wife, and he eventually married another man!  After a brief stint in secular education, he became an Episcopal priest. 

After leaving the above church, I went to another neighborhood church.  Again, the pastors were great....very good sermons!  I loved the reverent worship service.  But the congregation kept getting rid of the good pastors!    They finally got one from Texas....at first he preached on general topics so he wasn't showing his true colors then.

Finally, in one sermon he said a Bible verse was wrong!   I was shocked!   I approached him about what he had said in the coffee hour.  He told me, "Oh, the Bible has been proved wrong in many ways by science.".   I stopped going there after that statement.   Now and then I went back to see if he had changed...but  he was always making another strange remark about Bible believing Christians, etc.   One sermon he did on wisdom, he said it came from life experiences...no mention of God!  So of course, I didn't go back there.

There's more...but will just leave you with the two above examples.

Are some churches getting crazy in other parts of the USA?  Or is it just my neighborhood?!

NOTICE how they come in , they don't change right away.   but will slowly start adding confusion in.   ANY man that says the bible is not wholly accurate

I don't care if he says its the best book he ever read..........FLEE HIM , he has an agenda .    many churches are and have been doing this.

they get rid of the good ones and usually bring in younger ones , with more enthusiasm  , an appearance of having zeal for GOD, but its not FOR GOD at all

they zealous for their own new mission . to convert the churches to the all inclusive interfaith way .  and it has worked .  they use words like love a lot

freedom a lot , tolerance,  peace , doing good works.  BUT don't expect any godlinesss, holiness, gravity from these.   I have never seen such darkness

appearing as light to so many IN MY LIFE .  its a delusion folks , its a delusion and a world wide one too.   

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1 hour ago, secretopossumcabal said:

That story is disheartening and quite frankly not surprising considering the age we're living in. 

I live in New England and if I bothered with the churches, I'd expect much of the same, the nearest church to me was a pro-LGBT church, which recently got converted into a daycare.

Christianity is getting so unpopular that we're turning a lot of our churches into condos.

I figure that Rural churches are much better than the ones in the cities, as cities tend to be very liberal throughout the west, but I don't have easy access to those. 

What is really going on is they building a religion .   its one that is all inclusive , will hold hands with gays, muslims , you name it , FOR WORLD peace and unity.

This thing is gaining ground unlike anything I have ever seen.  and all  I keep remembering is

The very coming anti Christ..............how does he DESTROY ..........................BY PEACE.  oh dear this spirit is leading them RIGHT TO IT and itwill seem

as a man of love , peace , tolerance , but it will have only hate and war for the true lambs.   ITS COMING and wont be stopped  .  we better dig in deep

we better get grounded in holy doctrine , IN CHRIST , and be faithful to the end.    cause a massive tribulation will arise AFTER this spirit has led all to the man of peace.

 

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2 hours ago, Enoch2021 said:

1.  "Science" isn't an ENTITY or a RESULT, it's a Method: The Scientific Method.

If you talk about "Science" in "church"??  Why would you?   It's tantamount to bringing up Gasket Sealing at a Rib-Eye Conference.

How does it go, someone's talking about how Christ is the Way, Truth, and the Life and you chime in with what is the Dependent Variable?? (I doubt that you even know what it means to begin with).

It's Non-Sequitur... on Nuclear Steroids!!

 

And forgive me but, What on Earth does this mean...

2. they hear "to believe the Bible about science" ??

To believe the Bible about science?? :huh:  The Bible doesn't speak to The Scientific Method ("Science"). However, it does speak directly to Pseudo-Science...

(Timothy 6:20) O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.

Is that what you're talking about? (most assuredly Rhetorical)

 

3.  The Flat/Non-Spinning/Domed Geocentric Earth (or the 'Spinning-Ball' religion) isn't "Science" to begin with.

To know with absolute certainty that HE Created a Flat/Non-Spinning/Domed Geocentric Earth is to just take God at His Word.  Would you like ~65 Examples??

 

As for the OP specifically, I live Smack Dab in the middle of what is called "The Bible Belt" (Central Missoura).  I have been in and out of at least 50 "churches" in the past 10 years.  They are literally infested with the Paradox (brought to you by the serpent): 

1.  Take God at His Word, OR...

2.  Believe the Nonsensical Buffoonery from the Pseudo-Sciences -- ( astronomy, astrophysics, cosmology, paleontology, geology, anthropology, archaeology, evolutionary biology (lol), theoretical physics.) ...That's Pontificated from Rooftops, over and over and over and over and over again.

Both can't be True.

Ya see, the majority of people know with absolute certainty that there is "A CREATOR" because they can 'Fog a Mirror' (and God has shown them:  See: Romans Chapter 1). HOWEVER, Indoctrination (no matter how moronic :rolleyes:) from Diapers is an EXTREMELY Powerful influence and tactic...most can't break-away.  So many "Mind Numbingly" attempt to reconcile The Word of God with "Science" (aka: Pseudo-Science) which breeds utter chaos and discord!!  It'd be easier reconciling Married Bachelors.

99.99999999999% of the Problem is Right Here ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

 

Let's Reason Together, shall we??   God has already warned and told you that satan is the most beautiful and WISEST of all his Creations.  Moreover, God has given you satan's Two Common Tactics...

1.  Create Doubt ("Hath God Said...??").

2.  Outright Denial of The Word of God ("...you will not surely die".)

There's nothing new under the sun.

So, put yourself in satan's shoes:  The Creator of the Universe has just Declared War on You (YIKES !!!) See: Genesis 3, and the vehicle of your destruction is the 'seed of the woman' (Jesus Christ).

So what are you gonna do??  I don't know bout you, but practically and tactically my 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/180,000th ect act is gonna do everything in my power to CORRUPT THE SEED OF THE WOMAN.  'duh' Right?  (See: Genesis 6, Flood, Entire Old Testament).

satan tried and failed miserably but the end is not yet (Another Topic).  He knows that his 'goose is cooked' and since he hates MAN with a passion, he's gonna do everything in his power to take as many down with him as he can, so it's back to the Ole Tried and True...

1.  Create Doubt ("Hath God Said...??").

2.  Outright Denial of The Word of God ("...you will not surely die".)

We already know he and his minions are the "Powers Behind" all the Empires (Governments) of the World, Right?  Cause again, GOD TOLD YOU !!! (See: Daniel Chapter 10)

So do you think that satan and his minions behind the World's Governments are gonna focus their attack on:

A.  The Maytag Repairman et al.

or 

B. ALL the Upper Echelon of: The Higher Institutes of Learning (Infiltrating Public Schools), Media, Seminaries, Hollywood, ect ect ... Maybe employ some 'Artistic Licence' with Secular History a bit?

????????

pssst...

WAKE !#%!$^&**$@$^ UP !!!!!                                          

 

Hope it Helps

Have a Nice Day.

 

 

:laugh:

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Thanks to all of you for the input and support...it meant alot to me.  I guess I just needed to talk about it.

Actually both of these pastors were older men.  The one who said the Bible was proven wrong is even older, in his mid to late 60s.  I didn't want to sit under his sermons after that.

The other pastor who eventually came out as gay....I could never understand what he was trying to say in his sermons!  Now I know why!  My mother couldn't understand his sermons either and we have both heard many sermons in our lifetimes.  I am 67.

Although the churches were denominational, many previous pastors were excellent!  One told in a sermon that he was converted while sitting in class studying for his doctorate in the ministry!!  His professor made a remark and Dr. K. said he was instantly born again!

Another pastor, Dr. H., was in the circus as a child and young person...his mother committed suicide and he was born again while grieving her death.  He told that in a sermon.

Dr. S., he is ordained Presbyterian and always put something interesting into his sermons you had never heard before!  He taught the Bible each Sunday...was so sorry when he left.

There were other good pastors, too.

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