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Desperate Call to Action on the Church's Part


Anonymous77712

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I don't even know where to begin, but I need to say this. There is a huge moral and ethical scandal going on in American churches, and that involves sex abuse. And it's been going on for FAR too long.

To everyone reading this post, this needs to be said right now, to everyone. I don't care what your beliefs are, I don't care who you know, I don't care what gender you are, what age you are, what your job is, etc. I don't care about ANY of that stuff! You have NO right, to take advantage of the vulnerable, or stick up for those who do, for your own disgusting personal gain! This isn't a matter of the recent Hollywood scandal, or any specific scandal, this is about a virus Satan has been spreading around underneath our willfully ignorant noses, and it needs to be stopped NOW!

Church people, Christians, I DEMAND as a fellow Christian, that you start taking your beliefs about defending the vulnerable and weak seriously. The world is watching how we treat those very people, young and old. If Hollywood is doing a better job taking down and separating themselves from predators... This isn't only embarrassing, this is disgusting, shameful, and SINFUL!

Church, God does not NEED YOU to defend his reputation! He doesn't NEED YOU for anything! And he does NOT offer forgiveness willy nilly to just anyone! People are ONLY given forgiveness when they REPENT! When they genuinely show they're sorry not just through their words but their actions! I don't care if the abuser is a pastor or elder or anything. If you have evidence that they abused, they need to be removed from their post and be kept far away as possible from people they can abuse until they can show themselves trustworthy. And I have the BIBLE to back me up on this!

The fact of the matter is, as much as we would like to believe otherwise, there are evil people in this world. Evil people who do not have a conscience. No matter how bad someone's past may have been, people CHOOSE to abuse! And they DO NOT have my sympathy!

In fact, I'd like to quote now from a person who can say it much better than I can. Seriously, if I could, I would make you read this post until you finish reading it, because this. is. serious.

Does it seem harsh or un-Christian-like to you to refer to a child rapist as a pervert and a dirtbag? Or to call someone who would terrorize her own 2-year-old to the point that he can't catch his breath and is gasping for air, and then laugh at his panic, a sadist and a sociopath? Or to call a mother who stays married to the pedophile who raped her child, fails to do anything to protect that child, and then tops it all off by babysitting OTHER PEOPLE'S children and leaving them alone with the pervert so he can (and did) rape THEM too, a lowlife who belongs in the cell next to him? Is calling a baby-killer a "murderer" going to hurt his poor widdle feelings? Is there even a name bad enough, or should I say "descriptive" enough, to call a mother who would set up her own child to be raped repeatedly by her husband, to keep him from focusing his attention on HER? What about a father who pimps out his children to his friends for money and beer? Or the jackass who has a fight with his girlfriend and then beats their 5-week old baby to death for spite, to get back at her? Or the parents who lock their child in a room for seven years, make her use a litter box for a bathroom, and starve her so badly that she weighs only 35 pounds when she finally dies?

Hey, they are what they are. I'm not here to help them feel good about themselves. Seriously, what else would you call them? What would be the politically correct way to refer to scum like this? "Slightly irresponsible"? "Child torture-challenged"? "Having low self-esteem which results in unintentional acting-out of their frustrations and beating the baby"? "Having boundary issues with sexually touching children"? "Being a little temperamental, sometimes resulting in accidentally going too far and killing a child"? Oh, puleeze. Enough, already.

Someone who LIKES to see pain and gets their pleasure by making a helpless victim suffer is a SADIST. That's the definition of the word "sadist."A person who remorselessly and brutally inflicts his malice and violence on an innocent target, has absolutely no conscience or compassion about it, and in fact often then tries to use what he did to elicit sympathy for HIMSELF, is a SOCIOPATH. That’s what a sociopath IS. No, really. Look it up. Let's not disrespect the victims and minimize their experiences and pain by making up more pleasant sounding euphemisms to cover up their abusers' true natures. That sends a false message to victims and to the world, that what was done to them wasn't really so bad. But it WAS, so let's stop beating around the bush. Let's stand up and make our disapproval of and contempt for their abusers loud and clear. Tell it like it is.

Jesus certainly didn't pull any punches when he called the Pharisees just about every name there was in the book at the time. Hypocrites, snakes, brood of vipers, unclean, greedy, whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones, blind fools, full of wickedness, sons of hell (Matthew 23:13-33). He used the strongest possible language of his day to denounce them. He made an example of them. He spoke, not just directly to the Pharisees, but for the benefit of everyone else within earshot. Do you think the people who heard him got his point? Evil is evil. It is never un-Christian-like to tell the truth, nor is it un-Christian-like to use strong language when you tell it.

This is not a subject we need to be wishy-washy, calm, or easy-going about. We don't need to phrase it kindly lest we insult a dirtbag or offend his partners-in-crime. Using strong language to describe abusers and their enablers serves a purpose. It gets people's attention. It underscores for them just how disgusting, shameful, and, yes, EVIL, the behavior of these so-called "parents" is, and how disgusting, shameful, and EVIL the parents themselves are. It says if you protect an abuser by tolerating or minimizing abuse, then YOU are just as guilty as he is. It brings things that are often hushed-up or whispered about out into the open, and gives others the courage to stand up and tell it like it is, too. It makes a big deal out of something that many people would just as soon pretend isn’t happening or isn’t really that bad. It makes it UNACCEPTABLE to ACCEPT abuse. It drives home the point that abuse, and enabling abuse, is NOT "accidental." It is NOT something "they can’t help." It is NOT a "mistake" or a "misunderstanding." It is DESPICABLE. It is INTENTIONAL, DELIBERATE, and supremely SELFISH. Abusers victimize others to get their own needs met, and their enablers allow it, and even encourage it, to make their own lives easier and to get their own needs met. It's a sick, twisted dynamic. 

And they continue until they are exposed, or better yet, arrested. They continue until the silence is broken. They continue until we stop circumventing the issues, coddling them, walking on eggshells around them, and talking about them in nice, mild, smiley-face terms - terms that are vague, deceptive, and fail to present the TRUE picture and emphasize the gravity of it to the listener. It's not OUR fault if the truth is ugly.

They continue until they are embarrassed and shamed. Until someone stands up and shouts the truth about them from the rooftops. They continue until the people who know them stop sugar-coating their behavior, sweeping it under the rug, and making excuses for them, and start looking at them with the appropriate revulsion and loathing. They continue until nobody wants to be associated with them anymore, until others start avoiding them like the plague, and warning everybody else to stay away, too. In the Bible, this is referred to as "shunning," and it’s meant to produce shame and repentance. They continue until it gets through, not just to them, but to everyone around them, that what they are doing is WRONG, wicked, evil, and bad, bad, bad. Until we make our opinions of their behavior so crystal clear that there can be no mistaking our repulsion and condemnation for anything even slightly milder. They continue until we start forcing them to OWN what they are: degenerate, sadistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, lowlife, dirtbags.

As for me, believe it or not, I do try to tone it down a bit. Imagine what my ramblings would sound like if I didn't! My calling as a Christian is to minister to the VICTIMS, not the abusers. Victims need to know that other people support them and agree that what was done to them was terrible, and that the lowlifes who did it are terrible. Survivors need to know that we validate them and their experiences. I'm here to help victims heal, to give them a voice, a nice, BIG voice. Not to help abusers gloss over, justify and feel okay with, or even good about, what they've done. Abusers don't deserve the privilege of being able to walk among the rest of us with their heads held high. I believe in letting the dirtbags live with the consequences of their own actions - including shame, embarrassment, and the disgust of good people everywhere. That's the way God made me. And I believe in keeping it up, relentlessly, until MAYBE, just maybe, they'll repent of their evil ways, turn to the Lord, and be saved.

There you have it. Now tell me I'm not the only one who's willing to say all this. Hate is not the opposite of Love. The opposite of Love is indifference, passivity. I take this seriously because God takes this seriously. I hate sexual immorality, but I hate hypocrites even more. We need to show this is NOT okay, no matter who does it, and it never WILL be okay. And let me tell you, if I ever come across something like this in my church... There. is. going. to. be. HELL. to. pay.

Edited by Steve_S
Changed a word to make it acceptable per TOS
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I was angry. And I wanted to make myself clear.

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 A lot of very bad things happen in this world, including false memories incited and actually created by government criminal investigators of supposed abuse. I was around it when it happened at Redondo Beach California in the  very late 1970s and early 1980's. Terrible charges were made against the owner operators of a preschool, just terrible stuff including the  State revealed testimony of the little victims.

Turned out none of it was true and that the very methods of getting a small child to share created the memories in them that it did happen. It was all very weird, and it destoryed the owners, and perhaps the little kids too.

Same thing happened to  a missionary family and their 15 year old son at about that time. Again they were ruined for over two years of investigation and attorney fees that came to nothing for similar reasons.

That is why it is very important to any person's testimony of faith to not ever put themselves into position that  a false charge may be leveled against them. As well as why it is  just as important to protect all the children from it ever being possible to be true.  

See the McMartin case notes on the internet. Visit the various accounts and later years follow up accounts from multiple sources. 

 

Edited by Neighbor
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That does not excuse the thousands of other true stories. And there are thousands. Studies have shown that less than two percent of victims, if that, lie about what was done to them. Two wrongs, especially in these cases, never make a right.

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On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:23 PM, Anonymous77712 said:

I don't even know where to begin, but I need to say this. There is a huge moral and ethical scandal going on in American churches, and that involves sex abuse. And it's been going on for FAR too long.

To everyone reading this post, this needs to be said right now, to everyone. I don't care what your beliefs are, I don't care who you know, I don't care what gender you are, what age you are, what your job is, etc. I don't care about ANY of that stuff! You have NO right, to take advantage of the vulnerable, or stick up for those who do, for your own disgusting personal gain! This isn't a matter of the recent Hollywood scandal, or any specific scandal, this is about a virus Satan has been spreading around underneath our willfully ignorant noses, and it needs to be stopped NOW!

Church people, Christians, I DEMAND as a fellow Christian, that you start taking your beliefs about defending the vulnerable and weak seriously. The world is watching how we treat those very people, young and old. If Hollywood is doing a better job taking down and separating themselves from predators... This isn't only embarrassing, this is disgusting, shameful, and SINFUL!

Church, God does not NEED YOU to defend his reputation! He doesn't NEED YOU for anything! And he does NOT offer forgiveness willy nilly to just anyone! People are ONLY given forgiveness when they REPENT! When they genuinely show they're sorry not just through their words but their actions! I don't care if the abuser is a pastor or elder or anything. If you have evidence that they abused, they need to be removed from their post and be kept far away as possible from people they can abuse until they can show themselves trustworthy. And I have the BIBLE to back me up on this!

The fact of the matter is, as much as we would like to believe otherwise, there are evil people in this world. Evil people who do not have a conscience. No matter how bad someone's past may have been, people CHOOSE to abuse! And they DO NOT have my sympathy!

In fact, I'd like to quote now from a person who can say it much better than I can. Seriously, if I could, I would make you read this post until you finish reading it, because this. is. serious.

Does it seem harsh or un-Christian-like to you to refer to a child rapist as a pervert and a dirtbag? Or to call someone who would terrorize her own 2-year-old to the point that he can't catch his breath and is gasping for air, and then laugh at his panic, a sadist and a sociopath? Or to call a mother who stays married to the pedophile who raped her child, fails to do anything to protect that child, and then tops it all off by babysitting OTHER PEOPLE'S children and leaving them alone with the pervert so he can (and did) rape THEM too, a lowlife who belongs in the cell next to him? Is calling a baby-killer a "murderer" going to hurt his poor widdle feelings? Is there even a name bad enough, or should I say "descriptive" enough, to call a mother who would set up her own child to be raped repeatedly by her husband, to keep him from focusing his attention on HER? What about a father who pimps out his children to his friends for money and beer? Or the jackass who has a fight with his girlfriend and then beats their 5-week old baby to death for spite, to get back at her? Or the parents who lock their child in a room for seven years, make her use a litter box for a bathroom, and starve her so badly that she weighs only 35 pounds when she finally dies?

Hey, they are what they are. I'm not here to help them feel good about themselves. Seriously, what else would you call them? What would be the politically correct way to refer to scum like this? "Slightly irresponsible"? "Child torture-challenged"? "Having low self-esteem which results in unintentional acting-out of their frustrations and beating the baby"? "Having boundary issues with sexually touching children"? "Being a little temperamental, sometimes resulting in accidentally going too far and killing a child"? Oh, puleeze. Enough, already.

Someone who LIKES to see pain and gets their pleasure by making a helpless victim suffer is a SADIST. That's the definition of the word "sadist."A person who remorselessly and brutally inflicts his malice and violence on an innocent target, has absolutely no conscience or compassion about it, and in fact often then tries to use what he did to elicit sympathy for HIMSELF, is a SOCIOPATH. That’s what a sociopath IS. No, really. Look it up. Let's not disrespect the victims and minimize their experiences and pain by making up more pleasant sounding euphemisms to cover up their abusers' true natures. That sends a false message to victims and to the world, that what was done to them wasn't really so bad. But it WAS, so let's stop beating around the bush. Let's stand up and make our disapproval of and contempt for their abusers loud and clear. Tell it like it is.

Jesus certainly didn't pull any punches when he called the Pharisees just about every name there was in the book at the time. Hypocrites, snakes, brood of vipers, unclean, greedy, whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones, blind fools, full of wickedness, sons of hell (Matthew 23:13-33). He used the strongest possible language of his day to denounce them. He made an example of them. He spoke, not just directly to the Pharisees, but for the benefit of everyone else within earshot. Do you think the people who heard him got his point? Evil is evil. It is never un-Christian-like to tell the truth, nor is it un-Christian-like to use strong language when you tell it.

This is not a subject we need to be wishy-washy, calm, or easy-going about. We don't need to phrase it kindly lest we insult a dirtbag or offend his partners-in-crime. Using strong language to describe abusers and their enablers serves a purpose. It gets people's attention. It underscores for them just how disgusting, shameful, and, yes, EVIL, the behavior of these so-called "parents" is, and how disgusting, shameful, and EVIL the parents themselves are. It says if you protect an abuser by tolerating or minimizing abuse, then YOU are just as guilty as he is. It brings things that are often hushed-up or whispered about out into the open, and gives others the courage to stand up and tell it like it is, too. It makes a big deal out of something that many people would just as soon pretend isn’t happening or isn’t really that bad. It makes it UNACCEPTABLE to ACCEPT abuse. It drives home the point that abuse, and enabling abuse, is NOT "accidental." It is NOT something "they can’t help." It is NOT a "mistake" or a "misunderstanding." It is DESPICABLE. It is INTENTIONAL, DELIBERATE, and supremely SELFISH. Abusers victimize others to get their own needs met, and their enablers allow it, and even encourage it, to make their own lives easier and to get their own needs met. It's a sick, twisted dynamic. 

And they continue until they are exposed, or better yet, arrested. They continue until the silence is broken. They continue until we stop circumventing the issues, coddling them, walking on eggshells around them, and talking about them in nice, mild, smiley-face terms - terms that are vague, deceptive, and fail to present the TRUE picture and emphasize the gravity of it to the listener. It's not OUR fault if the truth is ugly.

They continue until they are embarrassed and shamed. Until someone stands up and shouts the truth about them from the rooftops. They continue until the people who know them stop sugar-coating their behavior, sweeping it under the rug, and making excuses for them, and start looking at them with the appropriate revulsion and loathing. They continue until nobody wants to be associated with them anymore, until others start avoiding them like the plague, and warning everybody else to stay away, too. In the Bible, this is referred to as "shunning," and it’s meant to produce shame and repentance. They continue until it gets through, not just to them, but to everyone around them, that what they are doing is WRONG, wicked, evil, and bad, bad, bad. Until we make our opinions of their behavior so crystal clear that there can be no mistaking our repulsion and condemnation for anything even slightly milder. They continue until we start forcing them to OWN what they are: degenerate, sadistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, lowlife, dirtbags.

As for me, believe it or not, I do try to tone it down a bit. Imagine what my ramblings would sound like if I didn't! But I am what I am, too. I don't believe in pussying around with stuff like this. My calling as a Christian is to minister to the VICTIMS, not the abusers. Victims need to know that other people support them and agree that what was done to them was terrible, and that the lowlifes who did it are terrible. Survivors need to know that we validate them and their experiences. I'm here to help victims heal, to give them a voice, a nice, BIG voice. Not to help abusers gloss over, justify and feel okay with, or even good about, what they've done. Abusers don't deserve the privilege of being able to walk among the rest of us with their heads held high. I believe in letting the dirtbags live with the consequences of their own actions - including shame, embarrassment, and the disgust of good people everywhere. That's the way God made me. And I believe in keeping it up, relentlessly, until MAYBE, just maybe, they'll repent of their evil ways, turn to the Lord, and be saved.

There you have it. Now tell me I'm not the only one who's willing to say all this. Hate is not the opposite of Love. The opposite of Love is indifference, passivity. I take this seriously because God takes this seriously. I hate sexual immorality, but I hate hypocrites even more. We need to show this is NOT okay, no matter who does it, and it never WILL be okay. And let me tell you, if I ever come across something like this in my church... There. is. going. to. be. HELL. to. pay.

You don't have to feel bad for warning out .  Heck while we are at it , why don't we warn out against the dire and grave child abuse

that society , some churches , and media glorify.  the sick child abuse of letting  a lil boy think he is a girl ,   man we need to take this very serious .  I agree.  so lets warn out

about it all.    Child abusers .  its sad .   but if we warn out against some why not warn out against this child abuse too. 

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10 hours ago, Anonymous77712 said:

That does not excuse the thousands of other true stories. And there are thousands. Studies have shown that less than two percent of victims, if that, lie about what was done to them. Two wrongs, especially in these cases, never make a right.

Interesting, do you have these "studies" available for review? Please share of several if you can, it will be appreciated.

In the meantime, please since you have a cause, look up the McMartin  case Redondo Beach Ca. See the history of the dramatic affect on the testimony of young children that the techniques used by the State's investigators had on them!  it is classic case history of distortion and manipulation. It wasn't a pretty process and the results now studied revealed and used in education of counselors are startling! Children can be made to remember what did not occur at all. All by the techniques used by investigators.

And it happens! So one has to be extra careful when whipping up righteous anger against any accused. There needs to be a reasoned and rational review of all testimony and of investigators themselves. Lest the mob mentality take over and  absolutely innocent in fact kind and righteous individuals get destroyed by the righteous sounding trumpeters promoting fear in the populace.  

There may be thousands of stories, the number does make any one of them true nor false, just  makes many of them. Quantity does not make for quality. If it did  then the gospel of Jesus would be a lie. For few believe though "thousands" deny. Truth is not democratic, it does not bend to the weight of many stones to be thrown. Truth needs reasoned review, without  intense emotion whipping up a froth that becomes a blinder.

Again look up the McMartin case, it is precedent setting. If child abuse is your cause, obtain an read the authoritative reports about it, and how it effects the industry of seeking testimony from very young children.

Edited by Neighbor
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A extra note: It was stated that "Studies have shown that less than two percent of victims, if that, lie about what was done to them. "

Please read that through for yourself; "less than" ,"if that ".Just what is less than 2% if that? Is it 1% or perhaps "less than that"? Sorry but that just doesn't read as being particularly  dependable statical reporting does it? Kinda sounds made up from whole cloth, an invention born of enthusiasm even. Perhaps  the source of that  one could be shown? I'd like to  see the greater context of that  "report". The reason is  the McMartin case has produced statistics that state 58% of children can be made to recall false memories using the techniques used by investigators. That is compared to 17% having false memories if they are not manipulated by the investigation technique.

Seems to me that at least 17%, and up to 58%  if effected by investigation technique,  of  children can believe  and then tell what is a lie. That still leaves  2% that actually lie outright does it not? 

If there is one false accusation believed by many it posions all the real reports, and additionally ruins the life of an innocent adult somewhere. So, it is most important to try to work through it all. One cannot do that while raving on with emotion high and loosely spouting "facts" . It takes the harder work  of reasoning  and under prayer, very very very carefully seeking and reviewing accusations of any sort,  especially the high emotion ones. like child abuse. The cause may be right, and it is, but the high emotion and loose use of questionable statistics without support will undermine  the just cause itself.

Caution is required otherwise  there is just a witch hunt underway, and that witch hunt will focus upon  guess who?  Born against saints of jesus Christ, that's who. For satan will use the cause to accuse Christians of systematically abusing children. 

The saints in Christ Jesus also need to be above reproach. There needs to be extra caution y each saint for the children's sake first, but also for the  Christian workers sake.  With today's advantage in  technologies there should be a massive investment made by any saints tending to children to make  assurance to parents and guardians of children that their children are always safe and viewable by the parent and or guardian at  all times.

Edited by Neighbor
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Abuse is real! Abuse of children is very real! It is awful makes one feel sickened. And that is the why of it the very reason  everyone must be very careful before risking any situation that will make  fodder for Satan'saccusation against the many saints in Christ Jesus. Never ever give the enemy an even break for he and his minions the little anti-Christ's will leap upon it to cause horror for the saint, to punish the saint's helpful nature. That is why one must also protect to excess their reputation around all people of all ages. It is especially true in this era of massive rapid news, media, and the insatiable  appetite for  salaciousness that is prevalent today.

Edited by Neighbor
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