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An unprecedented event: would you join this?


listener24

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"We don't know the "appointed time."

 

This is true

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On 11/29/2017 at 12:36 PM, Yowm said:

except for what clearly God has revealed in the Incarnate God.

 

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"We don't know the "appointed time."

 

This is true

Retrobyter has given a very Scriptural answer on why to trust the power of Prayer. This, in addition to the many Scriptures quoted in the topic starter, because this wants to be an intention based on the Scriptures, and actually it's hard to find the New Testament an intention more cited than this.

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

I didn't say you did! I was saying that thinking that these "appointed times" give only ONE possible event on the timeline is LIKE the "certainly" that God has DETERMINED who will be "saved" and who won't be "saved."

Don't put God in a box of ANY size! If He wants to change the "appointed time" when He will send the Messiah back to earth, that's HIS business!

Let me ask you a simple question: Do you believe that God answers prayer?

There's no special "magic" to a particular date in the future (even when we don't know when exactly it will be). God keeps that date to HIMSELF. And, NO ONE KNOWS how much our current and future prayers to God for His longsuffering and covenant keeping will affect/have affected His choice for that date from the Beginning of Creation! But, I have absolutely NO DOUBT that God hears our prayers and answers them positively because we are His children, however that "positively" works out in reality. Some simplistically say that God answers , "Yes," "No," or "Wait a while," but I believe His answers are "Yes" and "Yes"; we just don't know how that "yes" will come across in the present. Remember: "The Spirit itself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered," and it is HIS interpretation of our prayers upon which God the Father acts.

But, it was promised,...

1 John 3:13-24
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
KJV

Later in the same book, Yochannan (John) said,

1 John 5:10-15
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
KJV

So, when one is "on the same page" with God, he or she may ask ANYTHING, and it will be done! Why? It's simply because we're thinking IN TUNE with God's thinking!

Yeshua` Himself gave us this promise:

John 15:4-7
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
KJV

and...

John 16:20-27
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
KJV

So, it's not impossible to pray to God regarding His Son returning sooner than He might otherwise have been sent the Second Time. We don't know the "appointed time."

Thanks for the Scriptural details.

If someone is not still happy with Scriptures, however, here is another reasoning, (in addition to the ones discussed above and to the urls), presented me by a scholar of the Bible. This is about how a set time is perfectly compatible with the power of prayers to shortening:

"It would be an extratemporal effect, thanks to what is sometimes now called Boethian omniscience (after the Christian philosopher who ruminated on this among other topics while waiting to be beaten to death for his faith). 
The specific time God sets for the Return doesn't alter, no more than the precise time of His first coming, but is still based (partly not entirely) on the situation of the faithful praying for it (as was true for the Incarnation and the prayers of His people for deliverance). That's because all natural times are present to God's omniscience (thus to God's omnipresence), and He introduces effects into the created natural system with full knowledge of how those effects relate to the past, present, and future of the natural system."
 

Someone may find this reasoning useful, someone else may just trust the Scriptures. In my case, I just trust the Scriptures, but I'm presenting these reasonings in addition to the Scriptures, in response to other human reasoning that have been proposed.

Edited by listener24
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6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

I didn't say you did! I was saying that thinking that these "appointed times" give only ONE possible event on the timeline is LIKE the "certainly" that God has DETERMINED who will be "saved" and who won't be "saved."

Don't put God in a box of ANY size! If He wants to change the "appointed time" when He will send the Messiah back to earth, that's HIS business!

Let me ask you a simple question: Do you believe that God answers prayer?

There's no special "magic" to a particular date in the future (even when we don't know when exactly it will be). God keeps that date to HIMSELF. And, NO ONE KNOWS how much our current and future prayers to God for His longsuffering and covenant keeping will affect/have affected His choice for that date from the Beginning of Creation! But, I have absolutely NO DOUBT that God hears our prayers and answers them positively because we are His children, however that "positively" works out in reality. Some simplistically say that God answers , "Yes," "No," or "Wait a while," but I believe His answers are "Yes" and "Yes"; we just don't know how that "yes" will come across in the present. Remember: "The Spirit itself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered," and it is HIS interpretation of our prayers upon which God the Father acts.

But, it was promised,...

1 John 3:13-24
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
KJV

Later in the same book, Yochannan (John) said,

1 John 5:10-15
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
KJV

So, when one is "on the same page" with God, he or she may ask ANYTHING, and it will be done! Why? It's simply because we're thinking IN TUNE with God's thinking!

Yeshua` Himself gave us this promise:

John 15:4-7
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
KJV

and...

John 16:20-27
20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
KJV

So, it's not impossible to pray to God regarding His Son returning sooner than He might otherwise have been sent the Second Time. We don't know the "appointed time."

Do you believe God will not keep his word because of a prayer you make?

If God said there is an appointed time for the end ,do you believe him,or not?

A simple yes or no will do.

Do you believe God?

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There are reasons why Jesus isn't back yet, and for us to pray to shorten the time without knowing those reasons we may well may be fighting Gods very plans for people that we can't know.

Maybe we should be praying to keep us safe until he returns.

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1 hour ago, other one said:

There are reasons why Jesus isn't back yet, and for us to pray to shorten the time without knowing those reasons we may well may be fighting Gods very plans for people that we can't know.

 

1

Thanks for your answer!

One of these reasons may be that almost no one, in His own Church, is praying for His return anymore, differently from early Christians who were praying "Maranatha" with conviction. Unfortunately, some even hold in their hearth the hope that he comes as late as possible, and look at his Day with fear. Is this a ready Bride? 

You are right about the fact that whichever request we may do, we should ask that only if it's according to His will. That's why we also add "Your will be done", and He is the only one who knows with 100% certainty if this prayer is according to His will and in that case He'll listen(Luke 18:1-8); we can only have a certain confidence based on the many Scriptures about it, but not the certainty. That is true for every prayer, even less Scriptural ones that are still practiced.

Edited by listener24
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3 hours ago, Yowm said:

This all sounds like 'the chicken or the egg, which came first?' dilemma. Those who know God's Word know the chicken did as God is the First Mover, but to those who lean on their own understanding it would seem like an inseparable intertanglement leaving us hopelessly talking to ones' self lol.

True.  And since we know that God created the chicken and not the egg, we also know that some things are fixed.

  • So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority.  Acts 1:6-7

Restoring the kingdom looks to be one of those "fixed" things.

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46 minutes ago, Yowm said:

As a monergist, I'd say yes, but not without human interplay.

As many as are willing.  :)

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9 hours ago, other one said:

There are reasons why Jesus isn't back yet, and for us to pray to shorten the time without knowing those reasons we may well may be fighting Gods very plans for people that we can't know.

Maybe we should be praying to keep us safe until he returns.

Shalom, other one.

Revelation 22:20
20 He which testifieth these things saith,
Surely I come quickly. Amen. (Hebrew for "Truth.") Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
KJV

 

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8 hours ago, Yowm said:

This all sounds like 'the chicken or the egg, which came first?' dilemma. Those who know God's Word know the chicken did as God is the First Mover, but to those who lean on their own understanding it would seem like an inseparable intertanglement leaving us hopelessly talking to ones' self lol.

OH I know this answer...........the chicken came first  .   be blessed yowm.   

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11 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Do you believe God will not keep his word because of a prayer you make?

If God said there is an appointed time for the end ,do you believe him,or not?

A simple yes or no will do.

Do you believe God?

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Wrong perspective, but no.

Of course I do! Silly question really. However, there are qualifiers that can CHANGE the "appointed time." For you to think it couldn't happen is for you to doubt whether God will hear our prayers, but we are TOLD that He will! And, no, because of the way you phrased the question, a simple yes or no will NOT do!

Of course I do! But, HE is the One who determines what He has said will happen and when! He doesn't answer to you or anyone else who thinks they've isolated the day and the hour or even the month or year!

Something else to consider: Maybe He won't change the date of when Yeshua` returns; He may not, but He COULD changed the players! He can change who will be alive and who won't be alive when He allows His Son to return! He can also change the NATIONS that are players in the event, as well!

Something else to consider is this: The Jewish calendar, following the lunar cycle, will change from year to year as to when Yeshua` may return in that year. I don't expect Him to return until about 220 years from now. If He returns in my lifetime, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I don't think it will happen. Just the same, I'll continue to look for Him and anxiously expect Him to come at any time!

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