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listener24

An unprecedented event: would you join this?

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4 minutes ago, listener24 said:

I'm happy for you, and I received Him too, and can never forget the moment my life changed.

I already rejoice in Him and his Word every day.

However, at worse, I share this same desire of Peter, if it's only a desire as Last Daze said. I don't think I've nothing to lose from that. While, at best...you do the math.

 

http://biblehub.com/luke/11-13.htm

Then you should know Jesus was talking about the holy spirit and not a rapture.

Why don't you let God finish his work instead of asking him to cut it short?He has set a time for everything.A time to plant and a time to harvest.Your not going to change his seasons.

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2 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Why don't you let God finish his work instead of asking him to cut it short?He has set a time for everything.A time to plant and a time to harvest.Your not going to change his seasons.

Because I'm not sure if He who knows the future, has decided the day also taking into account the prayers of his chosen. So our prayers in the present are part of the plan that He prepared from the beginning, as well as our sharing of the Gospel all over the world.

 

Moreover, even in the case this prayer wasn't effective, I don't think that spiritually is a bad thing to desire. A Church looking forward to the Return of the Lord, has less risk of being attached to the worldly desires, and is more likely to live for the sole purpose of helping people and spreading the Gospel. This because from personal experience I've met so many Christians so attached to the flesh, that they wish the Lord should come as late as possible (like in Luke 19:14). What is more likely to cause such state of mind, a prayer for one's own personal finance, or a prayer for the Church to meet the Lord soon?

In the worst case, if it's really not effective, is just a prayer to be prepared in every moment (Matthew 25:13) so it has this part of goodness.

 

 

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1 hour ago, listener24 said:

Because I'm not sure if He who knows the future, has decided the day also taking into account the prayers of his chosen. So our prayers in the present are part of the plan that He prepared from the beginning, as well as our sharing of the Gospel all over the world.

 

Moreover, even in the case this prayer wasn't effective, I don't think that spiritually is a bad thing to desire. A Church looking forward to the Return of the Lord, has less risk of being attached to the worldly desires, and is more likely to live for the sole purpose of helping people and spreading the Gospel. This because from personal experience I've met so many Christians so attached to the flesh, that they wish the Lord should come as late as possible (like in Luke 19:14). What is more likely to cause such state of mind, a prayer for one's own personal finance, or a prayer for the Church to meet the Lord soon?

In the worst case, if it's really not effective, is just a prayer to be prepared in every moment (Matthew 25:13) so it has this part of goodness.

 

 

Your not sure God has set a day to send Jesus to gather together his elect?

 

http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-36.htm

 

Yes he has.Jesus testified God himself knows the exact day and hour he will send Jesus.

 

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20 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Your not sure God has set a day to send Jesus to gather together his elect?

 

I'm definitely sure of that, sorry if I didn't express myself correctly. (This is also covered in my point "avoid misconceptions" in this thread starter)

What I'm not sure of is if, in setting that day, He has also taken into account the prayers of His elects, because He knew the future, included the prayers we would have done, and the way we would have spread the Gospel.

Edited by listener24

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6 minutes ago, listener24 said:

I'm definitely sure of that, sorry if I didn't express myself correctly. (This is also covered in my point "avoid misconceptions" in this thread starter)

What I'm not sure of is if, in setting that day, He has also taken into account the prayers of His elects, because He knew the future, included the prayers we would have done, and the way we would have spread the Gospel.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/8-4.htm

 

Of coarse he knows the prayers of the saints and have taken them,into account.He told us already.

 

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1 hour ago, listener24 said:

I'm definitely sure of that, sorry if I didn't express myself correctly. (This is also covered in my point "avoid misconceptions" in this thread starter)

What I'm not sure of is if, in setting that day, He has also taken into account the prayers of His elects, because He knew the future, included the prayers we would have done, and the way we would have spread the Gospel.

Listener24,

What most people replying to your post don't realize is, WE create the appointed time, that the LORD has appointed.

By which I mean is this:

Jesus says: go out to all the nations and preach the gospel. Once all the nations have received the Gospel, then the end will come.

People like to disassociate themselves with God's plan. As if they're something separate, yet indeed we are a single organism. WE are the history, present and future of this earth. God appointed a time, which we fulfill. 

Many of Jesus' parables were this: 'I will come when the earth is ready for harvest'. What does that mean? It means the gospel is the water that nourishes the seeds, helps them grow. We need to water ALL seeds, until they are ready for harvest. When the harvest is ready, the sickle will come down on the earth and the wheat will be collected. Why does the angel tell the one on the cloud, to swiftly reap the harvest? Because if you wait too long, the harvest will perish.

When God says he has an appointed time, it means he knows when the time will be, that WE have fulfilled our mission. 

It does NOT mean, we sit back and wait for God to do the work. When Jesus says to HASTEN the coming. He means...TO Hasten, THE Coming. We are the spiritual catalyst in Gods plan. Meaning, WE ARE Gods plan. If we did NOT preach the gospel, we are not fulfilling Gods will. 

When Jesus says, 'then the end will come'. What could this mean? I don't claim to know, but it could mean this: the labor of the birth will begin. If it includes the rapture, I don't know. But when the end comes, it could be the end of Gospel preaching, and the beginning of the end for unbelievers. "So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the grapes of the earth, and he threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath"

 

To answer your thread question: If you are implying we re-create a denomination of Christianity which everyone follows, then no. It will only create more divisions.

If you mean, to make aware to all churches, the mission of preaching to all nations. Yes, I agree. From the time Jesus was born, to the time he ascended, and until now. There has been ONE MISSION: Preach THE Gospel. 

Christianity is NOT, going to church once a week, preaching to the same people over and over. This is a false doctrine created by mans religion. Again, Jesus had one soul mission for us: To Preach THE Gospel.

 

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On 11/25/2017 at 11:46 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Of coarse he knows the prayers of the saints and have taken them,into account.He told us already.

This is amazing Shilohsfoal, we have surprisingly arrived to the same conclusion through this open dialogue. This is exactly what I'm talking about: God who considers His sons' prayers, into His plans of salvation. The fact that by knowing the future He knows that He will already take into account them, doesn't exempt people living in the present for actively praying and cooperate, nor make them useless.

 

@MyLordServant, what an answer!

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

People like to disassociate themselves with God's plan. As if they're something separate, yet indeed we are a single organism. WE are the history, present and future of this earth. God appointed a time, which we fulfill. 

2

I think that this is a common message throughout the Scriptures too, and only some verse out of context could deny it. 

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

When God says he has an appointed time, it means he knows when the time will be, that WE have fulfilled our mission. 

It does NOT mean, we sit back and wait for God to do the work. When Jesus says to HASTEN the coming. He means...TO Hasten, THE Coming. We are the spiritual catalyst in Gods plan. Meaning, WE ARE Gods plan. If we did NOT preach the gospel, we are not fulfilling Gods will. 

Exactly my point: and I think that our mission may be articulated in exactly the 2 points that you mention: spreading the Gospel, and praying with the right intention. (Because both things are incredibly stressed in the Gospels). And it is stressed that is not enough to pray by wasting words, but the right intention is what's very powerful. If you think about it, these things are complementary: to the more people is preached the Gospel, the more people can ask with a sincere heart the Lord to hasten his Fulfillment.

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

If it includes the rapture, I don't know. But when the end comes, it could be the end of Gospel preaching

Exactly, as I discuss in a point above, I don't mind if people believe in pre/post/past/pluri/anti tribulation. What matters is the intention to see the Lord soon, to ask Him: Come! So every Christian could potentially pray this, this could be a unifying desire. And this leads to your last point:

On 11/25/2017 at 2:11 PM, MyLordsServant said:

If you mean, to make aware to all churches, the mission of preaching to all nations. Yes, I agree. From the time Jesus was born, to the time he ascended, and until now. There has been ONE MISSION: Preach THE Gospel. 

Christianity is NOT, going to church once a week, preaching to the same people over and over. This is a false doctrine created by mans religion. Again, Jesus had one soul mission for us: To Preach THE Gospel.

 

I discuss this in point 1: it's not necessary to create "new" Churches. Because the real Church is the union of all the seekers of Truth, in the name of Jesus Christ, and who are subdued to Him only as a Master. So, this intention is so powerful because it can be spread to several Churches (except the so-called ones that hate the Return of the King)

And as you mentioned, these are 2 very important points in the Gospel: prayer, and preaching. 

If you think about it, what greater "testimony to all the people" would be than Christian all over the world asking for their savior to deliver them, once and for all, from evil? 

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5 hours ago, listener24 said:

Because I'm not sure if He who knows the future, has decided the day also taking into account the prayers of his chosen. So our prayers in the present are part of the plan that He prepared from the beginning, as well as our sharing of the Gospel all over the world.

 

Moreover, even in the case this prayer wasn't effective, I don't think that spiritually is a bad thing to desire. A Church looking forward to the Return of the Lord, has less risk of being attached to the worldly desires, and is more likely to live for the sole purpose of helping people and spreading the Gospel. This because from personal experience I've met so many Christians so attached to the flesh, that they wish the Lord should come as late as possible (like in Luke 19:14). What is more likely to cause such state of mind, a prayer for one's own personal finance, or a prayer for the Church to meet the Lord soon?

In the worst case, if it's really not effective, is just a prayer to be prepared in every moment (Matthew 25:13) so it has this part of goodness.

 

 

It is one thing to desire His return.  It is another thing to think that prayer can cause Him to move faster than He has already sovereignly determined by His own Will.  

Jesus will come back when HE is ready, not when we tell Him to.   WE have no effect on that, and you just need to accept that truth and stop with this silly notion that we can change His mind on the matter.   God has a plan and a purpose and it is working out according to His will and His will alone. 

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18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

silly notion that we can change His mind on the matter

Dear shiloh357,

I've never mentioned ever the silly notion that we should "change" God's mind, and forcing Him to do something against His will. That would be a silly belief indeed, and you are right to remind us not to make that mistake! :D

Instead, I'm saying that IF IT IS IN HIS WILL that our prayer have any effect, then He will happily receive them and satisfy them. And let's not mess up again with simple reasoning future-based. God knowing the future, of course, doesn't make the present less relevant. For a simple, naive example, that you know for sure, the fact that the Lord knows that someone will refuse Him, doesn't mean that the evil guy's decision doesn't have any influence because it's only in Lord's hands. No, it is that guy who chooses that, then of course, it is in God's will to respect his choice. The fact that God knows the future, doesn't mean that we have no choice, nor that our actions have no meaning or influence in God's Salvation Plan.

MyLordServant has already thoroughly discussed this point above, in a very sharp way in my opinion. 

 

"Your Kingdom Come, 

Your Will be Done"

Maranatha.

Edited by listener24
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14 minutes ago, listener24 said:

I discuss this in point 1: it's not necessary to create "new" Churches. Because the real Church is the union of all the seekers of Truth, in the name of Jesus Christ, and who are subdued to Him only as a Master. So, this intention is so powerful because it can be spread to several Churches (except the so-called ones that hate the Return of the King)

And as you mentioned, there are 2 things in the Gospel incredibly stressed: prayer, and preaching. 

If you think about it, what greater "testimony to all the people" would be than Christian all over the world asking for their savior to deliver them, once and for all, from evil? 

Indeed, too many Christians have veered from the path of the central Gospel.

"9 And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed."

What will cause the rest of the servants to be killed? 

Witnessing to All Nations 

"8 All these are the beginning of birth pains. 9 Then they will hand you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name."

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