When is the Sabbath?

When Is Jesus Coming? · November 29, 2017

1 minute ago, Steve_S said:

They can carry on with the discussion as they see fit and, as I said earlier, I have seen nothing here that would qualify as derailing this thread. There is no reason for you to attempt to make people discuss exactly what you want them to discuss. That is not the intent of the forums here. If you see something that you believe to be derailing, then feel free to report it and we will look at it, however, if it is along the lines of what you have been concerned with thus far, it does not fit in with what we would typically act upon as derailing a thread. In fact, it is not even close.

That is only your opinion but I bet you can't tell me what the OP is really about because if you did know what I am trying to explain then you would see why those off topic comment are nothing to do with the OP. I mean can I ask you; what am I talking about here?

Steve_S · November 29, 2017

2 minutes ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

That is only your opinion but I bet you can't tell me what the OP is really about because if you did know what I am trying to explain then you would see why those off topic comment are nothing to do with the OP. I mean can I ask you; what am I talking about here?

I did not come here to involve myself in the topic, only to explain to you why the thread is not being derailed. At this point you are derailing your own thread by discussing what other people are doing rather than discussing the topic itself. If you want to continue the thread, continue the thread, if not, we will lock it and everyone can move on.

When Is Jesus Coming? · November 29, 2017

2 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I did not come here to involve myself in the topic, only to explain to you why the thread is not being derailed. At this point you are derailing your own thread by discussing what other people are doing rather than discussing the topic itself. If you want to continue the thread, continue the thread, if not, we will lock it and everyone can move on.

Okay fine in that case please read this :

1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts must have been common knowledge at this time.

2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon.

3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low.

4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent response which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion in the empire with some 13 legions being sent, (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example); Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were. Even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad as there was no way that the monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west.

5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However the day before 1st January 45 BC the Romans calculated dates using a completely different ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar as recorded in history.

6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week that began separately from the ancient Hebrew week began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church, which was mainly made up of non-Jews (after Peter the first Pope), simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar.

7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, new moons or annual feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be seen from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more.

8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar.

9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allowed Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they lived (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish new moon days and annual feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to go back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them.

10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful:

Articles:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

inchrist · November 29, 2017

11 minutes ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Unless you read/watch what I sent you, you will not understand your error.

I posted from the talmud within Christs time.

If Christ had an issue with the date of the Pharisees he would of said so.....Christ never did.

Christ observed the sabbath on the same days as the Pharisees

Forget about the Tulmud the ancient Hebrew lunar Sabbath calendar is described in the bible itself

Bring up the scriptures and lets have a look.

When Is Jesus Coming? · November 29, 2017

40 minutes ago, inchrist said:

I posted from the talmud within Christs time.

If Christ had an issue with the date of the Pharisees he would of said so.....Christ never did.

Christ observed the sabbath on the same days as the Pharisees

Bring up the scriptures and lets have a look.

This is a huge study but I can start here with a few examples but there's way too much to explain here but this is a start (only a start, trust me there are loads of verses that prove the lunar calendar):

So in Samuel it shows God is naming day 1 of the month (new moon day) a feast day when they rested, but this is not a Sabbath. (Although there is an exception for day 1 of the Month of Tishri (month 7) which is called a Sabbath:

Leviticus 23:23-14

23The Lord said to Moses, 24“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of sabbath rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.

1 Samuel 20:18 + 24-27

18 Then Jonathan said to David, “Tomorrow is the New Moon feast [Day 1]. You will be missed, because your seat will be empty.

24 So David hid in the field, and when the New Moon feast came [Day 1], the king sat down to eat. 25 He sat in his customary place by the wall, opposite Jonathan, and Abner sat next to Saul, but David’s place was empty. 26 Saul said nothing that day, for he thought, “Something must have happened to David to make him ceremonially unclean, surely he is unclean.” 27 But the next day, the second day of the month, [Day 2] David’s place was empty again. Then Saul said to his son Jonathan, “Why hasn’t the son of Jesse come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

Then there are 6 days of work and a Sabbath on day 8 then after 6 more days the next Sabbath is the 15th as shown here:

Leviticus 23:4-16

4 “ ‘These are the Lord’s appointed festivals, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5 The Lord’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6 On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day [day 15] hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present a food offering to the Lord. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’ ”9 The Lord said to Moses, 10“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the SABBATH [day 15]. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour mixed with olive oil—a food offering presented to the Lord, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hinof wine. 14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 15 “ ‘From the day after the SABBATH,

Again it shows day 15 and also day 22 on the 7th month is a Sabbath;

Leviticus 23:39

"'So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the LORD for seven days; the first day is a day of SABBATH rest, and the eighth day also is a day of SABBATH rest.

Also, in Exodus chapter 16 it can be determined that a Sabbath in the second month after leaving Egypt fell on day 22 of that month, and therefore shows that God’s Calendar, and his Sabbaths, are most certainly linked to the phases of the moon on days 8, 15, 22 & 29:

Exodus 16:1-26

1 The whole Israelite community set out from Elim, and came to the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim, and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month [Day 15] after they had come out of Egypt. 2 In the desert the whole community grumbled against Moses and Aaron. 3 The Israelites said to them, “If only we had died by the LORD’S hand in Egypt! There we sat around pots of meat and ate all the food we wanted, but you have brought us out into this desert to starve this entire assembly to death.” 4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from Heaven for you. The people are to go out each day, and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day [Day 21] they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.” 6 So Moses and Aaron said to all the Israelites, “In the evening [Day 16] you will know that it was the LORD who brought you out of Egypt, 7 and in the morning [Also day 16] you will see the glory of the LORD, because he has heard your grumbling against him. Who are we, that you should grumble against us?” 8 Moses also said, “You will know that it was the LORD when he gives you meat to eat in the evening, and all the bread you want in the morning, because he has heard your grumbling against him. Who are we? You are not grumbling against us, but against the LORD.” 9 Then Moses told Aaron, “Say to the entire Israelite community, ‘Come before the LORD, for he has heard your grumbling.’ ” 10 While Aaron was speaking to the whole Israelite community, they looked toward the desert, and there was the glory of the LORD appearing in the cloud. 11 The LORD said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘In the evening[Beginning of day 16] you will eat meat, and in the morning [Also day 16] you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’ ” 13 That evening [Day 16] quail came, and covered the camp, and in themorning [Also day 16] there was a layer of dew around the camp. 14 When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor. 15 When the Israelites saw it, they said to each other, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was. Moses said to them, “It is the bread the LORD has given you to eat. 16 This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Everyone is to gather as much as they need. Take an omer for each person you have in your tent.’” 17 The Israelites did as they were told; some gathered much, some little. 18 And when they measured it by the omer, the one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little. Everyone had gathered just as much as they needed. 19 Then Moses said to them, “No one is to keep any of it until morning.” 20 However, some of them paid no attention to Moses; they kept part of it until morning, but it was full of maggots and began to smell. So Moses was angry with them. 21 Each morning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, it melted away. 22 On the sixth day [Day 21], they gathered twice as much, two omers for each person, and the leaders of the community came, and reported this to Moses. 23 He said to them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of SABBATH rest, [Day 22] a holy SABBATH to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake, and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left, and keep it until morning.’ ” 24 So they saved it until morning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. 25 “Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a SABBATH to the LORD. You will not find any of it on the ground today. 26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the SABBATH, there will not be any.”

So here it shows God names day twenty-two of the second month after leaving Egypt a Sabbath (four times). This was not a feast day that God was initiating, otherwise it would be listed with the others in Leviticus.

Bare in mind the first Passover was on day 15 month 1 as explained above in Leveitcus 23: 4-16

Also, as it’s known that the new moon festival was held on day one of every lunar month, it can be determined, with certainty, that God’s Calendar had four Sabbaths every lunar month, on days 8, 15, 22, and 29 with six days of work preceding each Sabbath.

As said there many more in the Bible but to explain them all as well takes much more study than this as these are just the easy to understand ones and so is best to look at the links within the link I gave you.

other one · November 29, 2017

3 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

If you are not going to address the OP then please refrain from posting here I have reported two others here for doing the same already. Thank you.

This place does not work that way. You can't tell people what to or not to post.

Marilyn C · November 30, 2017

On ‎27‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:27 AM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Hi When Is Jesus Coming?

In answer to your `name` Jesus is coming when the Father sends Him....(Acts 3: 20) and that is very soon for Him to receive His Body unto Himself - Head connects to His Body.

Now as to the Sabbath. We know from God`s word that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and for us as believers our `Sabbath,` is our `rest` in Him, not doing fleshly works but resting in His Holy Spirit doing the work through us. He gets the glory and we are blessed in the process.

`And God rested on the 7th day from all His works,....`They shall not enter my rest.` ...because of disobedience....There remains a rest (Sabbath) for the people of God. For he who has entered his rest has himself ceased from his works as God did from His.` (Heb. 4: 4 - 10)

Marilyn.

When Is Jesus Coming? · November 30, 2017

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi When Is Jesus Coming?

In answer to your `name` Jesus is coming when the Father sends Him....(Acts 3: 20) and that is very soon for Him to receive His Body unto Himself - Head connects to His Body.

Now as to the Sabbath. We know from God`s word that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and for us as believers our `Sabbath,` is our `rest` in Him, not doing fleshly works but resting in His Holy Spirit doing the work through us. He gets the glory and we are blessed in the process.

`And God rested on the 7th day from all His works,....`They shall not enter my rest.` ...because of disobedience....There remains a rest (Sabbath) for the people of God. For he who has entered his rest has himself ceased from his works as God did from His.` (Heb. 4: 4 - 10)

Marilyn.

Sure Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (what that means is open to interpretation though) but this thread is about when the Sabbath is. If you wish to know more please read this: