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When is the Sabbath?


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Jesus second coming will be when the Jewish surviving remnant cry out to him for deliverance from the Armageddon scenario wherein a global army of some 200 million soldiers are about to exterminate them to the last man woman and child.

It is what it will take to get them to cry out to Jesus because by that point nothing else will have worked for them.   

A case of last resorts... what the hell do we have to lose? Cry out to Jesus... that despised Gentile messiah for 2000 years (in their opinion) 

Hosha Nah, Yehoshua!

Save Now, Jesus!

And he will return in the clouds with an army in blazing glory touching down on the mount of Olives.

 

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2 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

I take it that you're replying to myself, if so then you have not understood what I am subsequently explaining. I have already agreed with you that we are not under the law and again for about the third time will stress that here; WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

I'm posting that for those who come by and not catch that you are saying that it is not mandatory....    why are you so bothered by me making sure that people know that....

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1 minute ago, other one said:

I'm posting that for those who come by and not catch that you are saying that it is not mandatory....    why are you so bothered by me making sure that people know that....

Okay I thought you meant it for me but wasn't sure. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Jesus second coming will be when the Jewish surviving remnant cry out to him for deliverance from the Armageddon scenario wherein a global army of some 200 million soldiers are about to exterminate them to the last man woman and child.

It is what it will take to get them to cry out to Jesus because by that point nothing else will have worked for them.   

A case of last resorts... what the hell do we have to lose? Cry out to Jesus... that despised Gentile messiah for 2000 years (in their opinion) 

Hosha Nah, Yehoshua!

Save Now, Jesus!

And he will return in the clouds with an army in blazing glory touching down on the mount of Olives.

 

Perhaps only one third of them will be saved?:

Zechariah 13:7-9 (Written in the fifth century BC, yet to be fulfilled?)
7 “Awake, sword, against my shepherd [Jesus], against the man who is close to me!” declares the LORD Almighty [God]. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones [the Jews]. 8 In the whole land,” declares the LORD, “two-thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one-third will be left in it. 9 This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver, and test them like gold. They will call on my name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”

Paul also saw this?: 

Romans 9:27-28
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved. 28 For the LORD will carry out his sentence on earth with speed, and finality.” 

Paul goes on to explain how the Jews’ hearts had been hardened towards God, yet once the times of the Gentiles are nearing its end, then they will turn to Jesus, their true Messiah:

Romans 11:25-27
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer [Jesus] will come from Zion [Jerusalem]; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob [Israel]. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” 

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Uh, I have to do some digging but as I recall it is klal yisro'el (all Israel).

Meaning all who survive to that point.

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Guest Teditis
On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:22 AM, OakWood said:

But regardless of such matters, it is an established fact that the Roman Catholic Papacy changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and this was during a time when the Jewish people were observant of such dates and knew exactly when the sabbath was.... so they had no excuse.

Regardless of whether or not we should follow the 'law', or whether the sabbath is still sacred or not, the RCC still changed the day.

Why would they do this? Why bother to change a day if the day is no longer important? And if they thought it was important to keep the sabbath then why not stick to God's ordained day rather than choosing a day of their own?

These are simple but honest questions and they deserve answers like most simple and honest questions do.

But, I suspect... as always; truthful answers will not be forthcoming.

 

The RCC were NOT the ones who changed Saturday Worship to Sunday Worship.

Eusebius clearly states that it was done in the 1st century in order to follow the 

Apostle's example.

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On 12/6/2017 at 1:08 PM, Teditis said:

The RCC were NOT the ones who changed Saturday Worship to Sunday Worship.

Eusebius clearly states that it was done in the 1st century in order to follow the 

Apostle's example.

The apostles gave no instruction to change the day of the Sabbath. Please point out in scripture where they did.

I'm not concerned about what charlatans may have proposed to be a good idea if their ideas conflict with scripture, and even if the RCC did not create Sunday worship - they promoted it, encouraged it, and at times persecuted those who deviated from it.

Changing the day of the Sabbath was never an instruction from God.

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Guest Teditis
2 minutes ago, OakWood said:

The apostles gave no instruction to change the day of the Sabbath. Please point out in scripture where they did.

I'm not concerned about what charlatans may have proposed to be a good idea if their ideas conflict with scripture, and even if the RCC did not create Sunday worship - they promoted it, encouraged it, and at times persecuted those who deviated from it.

Changing the day of the Sabbath was never an instruction from God.

I didn't say that it was in the Bible... I said Eusebius, the historian said that the change from Saturday to Sunday was due to the early church wanting to follow the example set by the Apostles.

But that was way before the RCC, see?

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See how easy it is to rewrite history. Winston Smith would have been impressed!

The quotations under discussion in this paper can be found posted on a number of web sites. They represent an attempt to show that:

"Christians always worshipped on the first day (Sunday)"

"While Sabbatarians will quote 20th century authors who guess about what happened 1900 years earlier, we quote Christians whose writings are 1900 years old and spoke what they saw!"

"The record of history, from the Resurrection of Christ, Christians have always worshipped on the first day of the week (Sunday) and never on the Sabbath (7th day)."

Yet an objective analysis of the very quotations cited leads one to several conclusions:

Those making such claims have probably never bothered to read these quotations in the original sources.

Whoever compiled the original list of quotations may have intentionally been attempting to deceive.

The various web sites posting these quotations, because they incorporate identically erroneous material, have likely "plagiarized" from some other source, without giving proper credit.

http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sunday-fraud.htm

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HISTORIC QUOTES CONCERNING THE CONTINUING OBSERVANCE OF SABBATH

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." – Dialogues on the Lord's Day, p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine). 

"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93. 

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416). 

"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour's death." "A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath," p. 77 

"The seventh-day Sabbath was...solemnized by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council (364 AD) did in manner quite abolish the observations of it." Dissertation on the Lord's Day, pp. 33, 34 

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. 

"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church." -- Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Lyman Coleman, ch. 26, sec. 2, p. 527. 

ACTUAL QUOTES FROM THE CHURCH FATHERS 

The observations of these historians are seen to be correct by the following quotes from those who actually lived during these early days of the Church.

Ignatius [107 AD] –  "Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness;  But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them." Ignatius - To the Magnesians chapter 9 (about 107 AD) 

Clement of Alexandra [153 AD]–  " Thus the Lord did not hinder from doing good while keeping the Sabbath; but allowed us to communicate of those divine mysteries, and of that holy light, to those who are able to receive them." Clement of Alexandria - Stromata, Bk 1, Chap. 1 

Oxyrhynchus Papyri [225 AD] – "Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath ye shall not see the Father." The oxyrhynchus Papyri, pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898). 

Constitutions of the Holy Apostles [250AD] –  "Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries. 

Archaleus [277AD] – “Again, as to the assertion that the Sabbath has been abolished, we deny that He has abolished it plainly; for He was Himself also Lord of the Sabbath.”Archaleus Acts of Disputation 

"it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9)." "Homily on Numbers 23," par.4, in Migne, "Patrologia Graeca," Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750. 

Athanasius [circa 290AD] – "On the Sabbath day we gathered together, not being infected with Judaism, for we do not lay hold of false sabbaths, but we come on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath," Athanasius, Homilia de Semente, Sec. 1, in MPG, Vol. 28 Col. 144, Greek. 

Socrates [439 AD] --: "For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebais, hold their religious assemblies on the Sabbath, but do not participate of the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening making their offerings they partake of the mysteries." (Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers. Second Series, Vol. 2, p. 132.) 

Sozomen [460 A.D.] – "The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries." (Ecc. History, Book 7, chap. 19. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers. Second Series, Vol. 2, p. 390.) 

*NOTE: The testimonies of Socrates and Sozomen are very important because these men lived in the fifth century, and had access to all the existing material, and yet they bear testimony to the fact that it was the almost universal custom of the church at that time to assemble on the Sabbath.
 

http://www.babylonforsaken.com/sabbathearlychurch.html

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