Guest JustMeLOC Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 (edited) I have to say I really enjoyed reading post #21, what Christ's Free Servant had to say. Truly I would say that so many people in the US and perhaps elsewhere as well, who have read so-called prophetic books like the ones by Tim LeHaye, have been led to believe that the church will be raptured before some 7 year tribulation period takes effect. What is even worse is that many believe they could still get a "second chance" if "left behind" when the "rapture of the church" takes place. It is unfortunate, to say the least. The truth is, we don't know exactly when Jesus will return, only the heavenly Father knows the appointed time and hour it will take place. But the Bible is pretty clear that the righteous (both living and dead) will be given eternal life. The wicked will be destroyed at His coming, to await the second resurrection and subsequent judgement of them which will occur when the 1000 year period is over. So the righteous will meet Jesus in the air with their glorified, eternal bodies and be with Him for 1000 years in that heavenly realm. Those who are left behind are .... dead on the earth! No chance then for the "antichrist" to rise up and afflict the world with a great tribulation that will last 7 years. Nope, that is the end of this age as we know it. It is the Last Day. So what does that tell you? The beast... the mark of the beast... all of it has and is happening now... we are being tested everyday that we live of this life, whether we are living it truly for God or are living for ourselves and taking on the mark of the beast. Because basically we can choose God and live according to His way or we can choose Satan/Beast's way in our thoughts and deeds, thereby taking on the mark of the beast (Forehead = thoughts... hand=deeds) I have heard people talk about getting beheaded if they choose to receive a "physical" mark on their forehead or hand. Perhaps they don't realize as I didn't at first, that an astronomical amount of true believers have already lost their lives over the last 2000 years of our history because of their decision to follow Christ and not the false satanic/man-made religious systems in place. Satan and his minions have been effective in covering this issue up, so that people could be led into a false sense of security, thinking these events will still unfold sometime in the future and they will be able to make a decision when it happens. Choose NOW whom you will follow, for in Jesus you have life, but the other option leads to death and destruction. It is my hope that if you are upset by what I write, that you won't immediately delete my message here, but at least seek the scriptures yourself and see what they say. Too many times (and I am guilty of this as well) we tend to want to run out and buy the latest book and see what someone else is saying about the Bilbe, instead of seeking and searching through it ourselves and allowing God our Father to work in our thoughts and minds through the power of His Holy Spirit, that leads into all truth and understanding. Edited April 13, 2005 by JustMeLOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted April 13, 2005 It is my hope that if you are upset by what I write, that you won't immediately delete my message here, but at least seek the scriptures yourself and see what they say. Too many times (and I am guilty of this as well) we tend to want to run out and buy the latest book and see what someone else is saying about the Bilbe, instead of seeking and searching through it ourselves and allowing God our Father to work in our thoughts and minds through the power of His Holy Spirit, that leads into all truth and understanding. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> JustMeLOC, I appreciate the fact that you liked what I wrote, but after that I'm not sure. I know there are all kinds of interpretations of scripture out there and many different theologies concerning End Times. But, how do you discount the 7 years of tribulation when it is Biblically so clear that this will take place? Do you not believe this is speaking of 7 literal years? You must believe what is spoken of in Revelation is therefore not to be taken literally as a particular period of time, but rather speaks of time in general and that the antichrist is not an actual being but rather represents all those who are against Christ or represents forces of evil in general. I'm not sure how you support your beliefs with scripture. You have asked that we seek the scriptures. How about if you give us your supporting scriptures for your beliefs? Is this just your belief? Or is there a group of people who believe this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JustMeLOC Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 JustMeLOC, I appreciate the fact that you liked what I wrote, but after that I'm not sure. I know there are all kinds of interpretations of scripture out there and many different theologies concerning End Times. But, how do you discount the 7 years of tribulation when it is Biblically so clear that this will take place? Do you not believe this is speaking of 7 literal years? You must believe what is spoken of in Revelation is therefore not to be taken literally as a particular period of time, but rather speaks of time in general and that the antichrist is not an actual being but rather represents all those who are against Christ or represents forces of evil in general. I'm not sure how you support your beliefs with scripture. You have asked that we seek the scriptures. How about if you give us your supporting scriptures for your beliefs? Is this just your belief? Or is there a group of people who believe this way? Dear Sue, You ask me how I can discount the 7 years of tribulation... where is it so clear in the Bible that there will be 7 years of tribulation? I'd be happy to consider those verses if you could point them out to me. I do remember these verses, however: "In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." (John 16:33) notice there is no specified amount of time there, and Jesus was talking to His own disciples... In this world (because we are not of the world) we will have tribulation... that's a guarantee when we are following Christ and not the world. And it is safe to say, reading the letters that the apostles wrote, that they indeed suffer, even unto death, for their belief in Jesus Christ. Jesus also says in John 17:14-16... "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world." Ok... this is one of the verses that speaks to me the truth that Jesus Himself prayed to God about NOT taking His followers out of the world so that they would/could avoid tribulation and trials (very unlike the teachings today of the church being raptured before a 7 year tribulation period begins for the rest of the world or those "left behind") Yes... we will have tribulations, but God will provide a way for us to bear those tribulations and temptations and keep us from the evil one, even though he is all around us in this world. When Christ is in us, there is nothing Satan can do to separate us from Him, not even death will do it. Now I do believe that in Revelation we are given a glimpse of the final wrath of God that is poured out upon the nations of the world...as evidenced by the 7 seals, trumpets and bowls. I could not say this takes place over a time period of 7 years, unless there is scripture elsewhere in Revelation that specifically states a 7 year tribulation period. I do see there, however, that those who have the "seal of God" are protected from the wrath that is poured out on the unbelieving and unrepentant, just as the Israelites in Egypt were during the plagues that hit during Moses' day. God is all powerful. He knows who are His and He knows how to protect them. Those who want to jump out of the boat in the middle of the storm, are not placing their faith in God's power to save. Jesus also reminded us, in Matthew 24:36-39, of this: "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did NOT know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." So no one knows the time Jesus will return, and yet the prophetic books of today will have us believe that AFTER the "secret" rapture of the church takes place, the world will be plunged into 7 years of great tribulation, whereupon at the end, Jesus will return. Well this theology gives people the opportunity to "know" that at the end of 7 years after the church is raptured, Jesus will return. The bible says here too, that Jesus will come as a thief... in what respect? Not that He will "secretly rapture the church" and those left behind will be left wondering what happened to their loved ones... but He will come as a thief to those who are not prepared for Him! He will come at a time when most are not expecting Him. Just as Noah was busily preparing the ark for him and his family, according to God's instructions and the world around him basically went on as normal, so it will be when Jesus comes again. Think about it... there are so many things that are happening right now in the world ... For those people who are reading the scriptures and know what is said about the last days... they will see the signs unfolding around them. The blind will continue to be blind and continue in their ordinary lifestyle, not realizing the sudden destruction that will befall them. In the above quote from you, you say I must believe.... yada yada...Ok, I don't know how you could come to the conclusions you came to, but that's ok. In regards to the antichrist... I know the word isn't even mentioned in Revelation at all. John speaks of it in 1 John2:18-19 and again in 1 John 4:3 and in 2 John 1:7... I believe as John did, nearly 2000 years ago, that the antichrist was soon coming in his days... has come and has been a part of the world for almost 2000 years, spiritually speaking. I do not look for the Antichrist to yet make an appearance, I know it already exists. What I do look for is Jesus Christ to come again. You also asked if I belonged to a group that believed this way. Can't say that I attach myself to any denomination out there in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Going back to the original question: Why does GOD allow this to continue to happen. In the bible it tells of god hand cleansing first the world then two cities. What is he waiting for? I need to ask you a question back. Is your image of God as the Divine Judge holding the holy sledgehammer? In other words, do you believe the LORD's number one priority is to judge sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Here is a question to ponder, If 3/4 of this worlds people are non-christian , homosexuality is spreading through out the world even to hold a 10 day whatever it is in the city of Jerusalem , 35000 pagans gather in the desert to experience HELL , sin is at an all time high and even christian churches are moving away from the word, Why does GOD allow this to continue to happen. In the bible it tells of god hand cleansing first the world then two cities. What is he waiting for? ------------------------------------------------- Art is born of the observation and investigation of nature. Cicero <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sin and evil have always been at an all time high, but so is God's long suffering. God has never been in a hurry to dispense His judgement. God has hasn't waxed mankind, because His Gospel is still being preached. God has a timetable, and everything is in His control. Noah preached for 120 years before the flood came, and God sent prophet after prophet to Israel before bringing down His judgement. I am convinced that God being true to Himself, warned Sodom and Gamorrah, and gave them every opportunity to repent. He would have spared those cities had there been ten righteous among them. Had God decided to cleanse the earth, many of us who are Christians today, would not even exist. God has a higher purpose/agenda; the preaching of the Gospel. It is His desire that no one perish, but that all would come to the knowledge of the Truth found in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bro David™ Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 God has a higher purpose/agenda; the preaching of the Gospel. It is His desire that no one perish, but that all would come to the knowledge of the Truth found in Christ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True. Praise the Lord, It is like this in my mind. When every human being has had the chance to accept Jesus, when all the ends of the earth has been preached with his word. His coming will be hastened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
his-servant-too Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 306 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1952 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 [quote name='Bro David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
his-servant-too Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 306 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1952 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 I have heard people talk about getting beheaded if they choose to receive a "physical" mark on their forehead or hand. Perhaps they don't realize as I didn't at first, that an astronomical amount of true believers have already lost their lives over the last 2000 years of our history because of their decision to follow Christ and not the false satanic/man-made religious systems in place. Satan and his minions have been effective in covering this issue up, so that people could be led into a false sense of security, thinking these events will still unfold sometime in the future and they will be able to make a decision when it happens Could you explain what are you talking about in this quote? ------------------------------------------------- The real hero is always a hero by mistake; he dreams of being an honest coward like everybody else. Umberto Eco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithfulFollower Posted April 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 349 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1984 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Here is a question to ponder, If 3/4 of this worlds people are non-christian , homosexuality is spreading through out the world even to hold a 10 day whatever it is in the city of Jerusalem , 35000 pagans gather in the desert to experience HELL , sin is at an all time high and even christian churches are moving away from the word, Why does GOD allow this to continue to happen. In the bible it tells of god hand cleansing first the world then two cities. What is he waiting for? ------------------------------------------------- Art is born of the observation and investigation of nature. Cicero <{POST_SNAPBACK}> His Servant Too, God is beyond a man's full comprehension, and although sometimes we may not understand just why certain things are allowed to happen in today's world. We must remember that as believers, we are to put our faith in Him. For there will be many things of which we may not understand now, but think of all that will be revealed in Heaven. May God Bless You Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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