inchrist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 2:56 PM, enoob57 said: I like how the Shiloh is centering upon the issue of definition in Biblical death... it is the key to the debate! 1 John 3:15 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Since when does "death" mean "eternal life away from God"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 01/12/2017 at 10:33 PM, Yowm said: Perhaps the definition of 'destruction' or 'destroy' should be questioned rather than 'death'. I have seen in TWOT (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) that death is defined as separation. Taking from Gen 2:17 we have... The word destroy as in annhilate does not seem to fit the concept of eternal (as in eternal torment, i.e. once consciousness is 'destroyed' there is no more 'eternal' for the soul. e.g. Revelation 14:10-11 KJVS [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb This should prove beyond doubt that this penalty is not an unending, conscious, torturing, because observing such a punishment is not the way the angels or Christ will be spending eternity. Secondly this passage is not even about hell but the bowl judgments instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Baptist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/01/1987 Share Posted December 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, inchrist said: in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb This should prove beyond doubt that this penalty is not an unending, conscious, torturing, because observing such a punishment is not the way the angels or Christ will be spending eternity. Secondly this passage is not even about hell but the bowl judgments instead. Revelation 14:10-11 KJVS [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. For ever and ever tormented with fire and brimstone, comes across to me that this is hell that's being talked about here and that it's eternal. Can I ask what the 'bowl judgements' are? God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 45 minutes ago, Celtic Baptist said: Revelation 14:10-11 KJVS [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. For ever and ever tormented with fire and brimstone, comes across to me that this is hell that's being talked about here and that it's eternal. At first blush, However we know the angels and Christ are not going to be spending eternity watching sinners being tormented. Further if look at key words like wine of wrath amd cup of indignation, this is bowl trumpet language, being Gods cup of wrath. Can I ask what the 'bowl judgements' are? Cup of wrath where you see sinners tormented and tortured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Baptist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/01/1987 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, inchrist said: ''Revelation 14 - and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:'' At first blush, However we know the angels and Christ are not going to be spending eternity watching sinners being tormented. Hello Brother, It certainly seems like the Lord and the holy angels will be present at this place watching over them burn forever. ALSO they will be present with us in heaven forever. Keeping an overview of both heaven and hell. We can agree to disagree on this one. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, Celtic Baptist said: Hello Brother, It certainly seems like the Lord and the holy angels will be present at this place watching over them burn forever. ALSO they will be present with us in heaven forever. Keeping an overview of both heaven and hell. We can agree to disagree on this one. God Bless Scripture doesnt state that either....heaven is coming to earth, God the father, the Son of God and the angels will be dwelling on earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Baptist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/01/1987 Share Posted December 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, inchrist said: Scripture doesnt state that either....heaven is coming to earth, God the father, the Son of God and the angels will be dwelling on earth God, Lord Jesus are omnipresent. They are everywhere. Heaven, Hell and Earth are all places he has created and he exists in them all. Even the New Heaven and the New Earth to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inchrist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 3,490 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 88 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 33 minutes ago, Celtic Baptist said: God, Lord Jesus are omnipresent. They are everywhere. Heaven, Hell and Earth are all places he has created and he exists in them all. Even the New Heaven and the New Earth to come. But angels arnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Baptist Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/01/1987 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, inchrist said: But angels arnt Great is the mystery of Godliness... maybe they are present in both Heaven and hell. We will find out one day, when we get to heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 hours ago, inchrist said: 1 John 3:15 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Since when does "death" mean "eternal life away from God"? Since the whole of Scripture demonstrates the separation of light and darkness, Heaven and hell, good and evil, blessing and cursing, Righteousness and sin... it is really a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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