simplejeff Posted December 1, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2017 Look up for examples those who are not forgiven yet, and those who will never be forgiven ever, according to Yahweh's Word, His Written Word. Yahweh's forgiveness is not given already, particulary concerning, nor will it ever be, to those who will never be forgiven. This is just one example of the error of thinking Yahweh's forgiveness was already given to some or all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Online Share Posted December 2, 2017 My take on it is... To err is human, to forgive divine. Uh, I ain't no god. So have a knuckle sandwich! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted December 3, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 2:48 PM, simplejeff said: On 12/1/2017 at 2:16 PM, Mike 2 said: The point is that the forgiveness is already been given but it cannot be received until there is repentance. We don't need to ask for it we just need to acknowledge we are in need of it because we have done wrong This looks directly contrary to much of Yahweh's Word and His Righteous Judgments, including most of all Yahweh's Wrath in the last days, when it is not mixed or followed with Yahweh's Mercy for those it is directed towards by Yahweh perfectly. That's an interesting point you're bringing up simplejeff. Let me see if I understand what you are saying....if God has forgiven all sin for all men, how is it then that we see God's judgement and wrath?....I think that is what you're saying. To me I think that I would have to consider what 1 to 3 is bringing up, the component of repentance. Without us admitting we have broken a relationship we cannot then seek to turn from doing wrong and the repairing the relationship. I cannot help but believe that a perfectly loving God will make it utterly obvious to every soul that He is offering salvation....and some will not admit that they need it. Why don't we throw some of the verses you are thinking of into the discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Yowm said: As a babe in Christ I found forgiveness 2nd nature, it is as I have matured and grown crusty forgiveness does not always come easy. Thank you for your honesty, not too many will admit. Thank you for your verses and link. On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 10:15 AM, 7trumpets said: Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. There is a condition "if he repents". Thank you for your verses. However may I pose questions that some have brought up to me regarding this. So does this mean a person does not have to forgive unless the other repents? Also, who do they repent to, the person they have offended or God? On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Gary Lee said: You do not have to "feel" forgiveness. I don't always do. But I do make a mental assent, that I forgive them. Thank you Gary Lee. I am learning myself that there is a process. I don't necessarily understand how or why some separate feeling from obeying. I believe both are needed. If one does not feel truly in their hearts how could they truly repent and mean it. As I said this is something I am learning myself. I am not knocking your process, because there is a process and The Spirit teaches everyone a bit differently (that personal relationship). Thank you again. On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Justin Adams said: Forgiveness is not necessarily an emotion either. What we 'feel' is often quite misleading. God says forgive. Simple! What we do is what really counts. Thank you Justin Adams, you always have insightful information. "What we feel is often quite misleading." This is true, however just speaking the words but lacking the heart, wouldn't that be false. (Again a question that was posed to me.) "God says forgive. Simple!" Maybe this is simple for someone who has a better understanding of scripture, or someone with an already developed relationship with Jesus. It's not that simple for a "babe". Thank you. Sorry for the late replies. Thank you all for your insight. It is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 minute ago, notsolostsoul said: Thank you for your honesty, not too many will admit. Thank you for your verses and link. Thank you for your verses. However may I pose questions that some have brought up to me regarding this. So does this mean a person does not have to forgive unless the other repents? Also, who do they repent to, the person they have offended or God? Thank you Gary Lee. I am learning myself that there is a process. I don't necessarily understand how or why some separate feeling from obeying. I believe both are needed. If one does not feel truly in their hearts how could they truly repent and mean it. As I said this is something I am learning myself. I am not knocking your process, because there is a process and The Spirit teaches everyone a bit differently (that personal relationship). Thank you again. Thank you Justin Adams, you always have insightful information. "What we feel is often quite misleading." This is true, however just speaking the words but lacking the heart, wouldn't that be false. (Again a question that was posed to me.) "God says forgive. Simple!" Maybe this is simple for someone who has a better understanding of scripture, or someone with an already developed relationship with Jesus. It's not that simple for a "babe". Thank you. Sorry for the late replies. Thank you all for your insight. It is much appreciated. For us, to repent to each other is quite different than our attitude and actions to the Lord. The Lord just say forgive. Period. When it comes to somebody 'repenting' towards us, that is a horse of a very different color. OK. God has a HUGE HUGE HUGE tank of forgiveness available. All we do is turn the tap just a little in repentance - He then showers us with His blessings and forgiveness right away. We on the other hand have a damp sponge. We have to really wring it out and squish it to get a drop of forgiveness to come forth. Thus often, thru gritted teeth, we obey and forgive. It goes against our natures to be like the Lord, that is why He constantly fills us with His love. We are all a work in progress. We forgive to remove the monkey off our backs and to open the way to the Lord's forgiveness. It is a real labor to forgive, because funnily enough, those things have a habit of coming back to haunt us. Satan HATES forgiveness, so he will remind us over and over again what he or she did to us. When we obey the Lord and forgive, we just cannot readily forget like He does. It is our fallen nature that will be with us until we are glorified. Yet we must forgive! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Mike 2 said: In regards to vs 15, is it possible that we think and feel that God has not forgiven us because we are feeling the anger and enslavement of unforgiveness towards another. I believe this is exactly the reason many hide from God. For 1) They think that God thinks or acts as Man does, then 2) They may be embarrassed, feel ashamed or guilt because of their own sin, so they rather stay away from God due to fear, knowing they have done wrong. On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Mike 2 said: If Christ died once for all men, for all sin how is it then that God would not forgive our trespasses if we don't forgive others? I have pondered this question myself, because it does seem to contradict other scripture. I.e. Matthew 6:15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,604 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said: I have pondered this question myself, because it does seem to contradict other scripture. I.e. Matthew 6:15. I have a idea this is a question of domain. There obviously was a set of spiritual circumstances regarding Adam's transgression and the Redeeming of Yeshua, the Second Adam. (Yeshua really came FIRST since he created it for Adam). Yeshua was offered the kingdom during His temptation. It was Satan's to give due to Adam's forfeiture. After the Cross, things now changed domains. Now Yeshua won back the dominion, and His followers must constantly avail themselves of this Propitiation and Redemption of their Kinsman Redeemer. Out of the darkness, into the light so to speak. We have to ACCEPT Yeshua's forgiveness. We have to CLAIM His gift of salvation, we have to AGREE with His convictions and ASK for his mercy. Then we are translated from Satan's kingdom of death and into His Kingdom of life. Edited December 5, 2017 by Justin Adams accept better word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsolostsoul Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 419 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 204 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Mike 2 said: We should be telling them ...You know how much God loves you, Ill tell you, He has already forgiven you, even the worst you have done, He didnt put any , any stipulation on it, you just gotta accept it. Love this! Some people and some places try and enforce that you must 1st be forgiven before God will even see you. (At least that's how they come off.) I am grateful that a Minister explained to me differently and brought me to a church that taught forgiveness was already given. Unfortunately, a preacher there eventually began trying to enforce I wasn't forgiven and had to ask when they wanted me to. Thank you Mike 2. You have definitely made this a fruitful discussion. Much to review and process. I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.35 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 12:31 PM, simplejeff said: Look up for examples those who are not forgiven yet, and those who will never be forgiven ever, according to Yahweh's Word, His Written Word. Yahweh's forgiveness is not given already, particulary concerning, nor will it ever be, to those who will never be forgiven. This is just one example of the error of thinking Yahweh's forgiveness was already given to some or all. I see the spirit of anti Christ at work . NOT IN YOU JEFF. but it is making a point which will lead to the concept of universal salvation. DO YOU SEE IT TOO. Its heavy . You right on. Jeff you spot on. The simple thing is their is no forgiveness for sin without repentance and faith IN CHRIST . OH , the answer to the question on how can GOD not forgive us for not forgiving others their trepasses if he paid the price for all sins already. IF one has not forgivness in their heart , THEN the LOVE OF GOD is not in them , which means THEY KNOW NOT CHRIST. WE know MANY say to him in that day..........LORD LORD , didn't we do , didn't we do IN YOUR NAME, OH, IN YOUR NAME and he says.....I NEVER KNEW YA . I see a heavy influence of the spirit of anti Christ interfaith universal salvation here today. Be on guard JEFF, many will enter in unbeknownst to others that they have a different agenda . todays agenda of the evil new age mindset of a universal salvation IS HEAVY at hand to lead all to the coming son of perdtion and his world peace kingdom. Be on guard jeff. be on guard. you be blessed. and praise the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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