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Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church


Quasar93

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2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Actually, I believe God put this verse here for pretribbers to use as a mental 2 x 4 for posttribbers.  It is quite clear: there IS a God created escape plan! We should be praying we are worthy of it. 

That makes perfect sense to me too. If the post trib theory is correct, why would Jesus even bother to say this to believers knowing that they all have to suck it up for 7 years. I know my Savior isn’t heartless like that. 

  • This is Worthy 1
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1 hour ago, Spock said:

Interesting thought, and I’ve been pondering this for quite some time myself.

Today, I am strongly considering the four horsemen of rev 6 having been already opened, and that perhaps the rapture/Rev 6 will soon be upon us. 

Im also trying to sort out the timing of the Gog, Magog War of Ezekiel 38,39. I’m still open to thinking it may happen just before Daniels 70th week begins and thus the peace covenant pursuant to Dan 9:27, or just after the signing. 

Spock, you will never go wrong with taking the Word of God as it is written - even Revelation.

Take for example, chapters 4 & 5 of Revelation: it tells a story with timing and the movement of time. And the time it shows  - it seems most here just choke on it: it does not fit so many pet theories. But it is truth: in chapter 4 Jesus was NOT THERE at the right hand of the Father, because He was on earth. The Holy Spirit was there because Jesus had not yet ascended to send Him down. (He IS sent down in chapter 5, the moment Jesus ascends.) And "no man was found" because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become worthy. 

Zero on on chapter 5: Jesus suddenly appears into he throne room, when a moment before He was telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended.  This gives us TIMING. Spock, I challenge you to find 2000 years anywhere in those verses or even between the verses up to seal #1. It is just not there. As soon as Jesus ascended, He got the book and began breaking seals. The first hint of a long waiting period is at the 5th seal and the martrys of the church age.

And correct me if I am wrong, but are there not STILL martyrs being added to this number?

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1 hour ago, Spock said:

I didn’t know 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 was written by Jesuits and thus Jesuit literature. And here I thought it was Biblical literature. Hmmm

 

Hilarious!  None of us knew this! And we still don't!

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24 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Hi Spock! Too long since we chatted! Accuracy comes from meditation and waiting on the Lord. It is really not that difficult: in verse 3B the man of sin is revealed (In Paul's argument).

Since he is revealed in 3b, then the truth of verses 6 -8 must have happened: the one restraining has to be taken out of the way in 3A. If words mean anything, this has to be truth. However, there is nothing except this Greek Word, "apostosia" that could possibly be any entity taken out of the way.

It is VERY interesting when Paul wrote, "Now you know what restrains"...... as if he had just told us. In fact, HE DID...but did it in a way that might be overlooked, so he penned "now you know" so people would read more carefully or back up and study..

 

You are Spock: you will see it. It is logical.

Hi la-mad,

great reading your words again. As you know, I’m a huge fan of your wisdom and insight. 

I have no problem interpreting it DEPARTURE and say that is the RAPTURE, but I did have a plan B for those who would not accept that interpretation.

paul was comforting the Thessalonians who thought they were in the GT, telling them that they weren’t because you first have to see the falling away of the believers and then the revealing of the Beast, the AC.....neither has been done yet, so relax, you are not in it. 

Im not sure that explanation makes post tribbies feel any better.....

Hey la, do you agree Matthew 24:29-31 is describing the SECOND COMING and not the rapture? I have had to debate this with posters on a daily basis. Just want to see your thoughts. Thanks.

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7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Spock, you will never go wrong with taking the Word of God as it is written - even Revelation.

Take for example, chapters 4 & 5 of Revelation: it tells a story with timing and the movement of time. And the time it shows  - it seems most here just choke on it: it does not fit so many pet theories. But it is truth: in chapter 4 Jesus was NOT THERE at the right hand of the Father, because He was on earth. The Holy Spirit was there because Jesus had not yet ascended to send Him down. (He IS sent down in chapter 5, the moment Jesus ascends.) And "no man was found" because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to become worthy. 

Zero on on chapter 5: Jesus suddenly appears into he throne room, when a moment before He was telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not yet ascended.  This gives us TIMING. Spock, I challenge you to find 2000 years anywhere in those verses or even between the verses up to seal #1. It is just not there. As soon as Jesus ascended, He got the book and began breaking seals. The first hint of a long waiting period is at the 5th seal and the martrys of the church age.

And correct me if I am wrong, but are there not STILL martyrs being added to this number?

La,

that makes sense to me too. I know some freak out if you tell them you think the four horsemen may have already ridden, but it sure seems to me too, Jesus began opening the Seals the moment he got back to Heaven. 

So la, do we agree the 6th seal is next up?  Btw, Do you see Gog/Magog War before the Daniel 9:27 covenant is affirmed or after? 

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16 hours ago, n2thelight said:

ONE SECOND COMING
 

SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF ONE SECOND COMING,
NOT TWO COMINGS,
OR OF ONE COMING IN TWO STAGES


Dispensationalism postulates that the Second Coming of Christ will occur in two stages. First, the Lord is coming for the Church (the Rapture); and, second, the Lord is coming with the Church (the Revelation). The first coming will be private, but the second coming will be public. Only the Church will know of the first, but the whole world will know of the second. The first is to catch away the Church from the earth; the second is for the Church to come back to the earth with the Lord. The first finds the Lord stopping in the air with the Church rising to meet Him; the second finds the Lord returning to this earth with the Church to rule and reign. These two stages will be separated by the years of the Great Tribulation. Such are the affirmations of the Dispensationalists.

It should be noted that Dispensationalists refer to the Lord’s coming before the Tribulation as the “Rapture,” and speak of His coming after the Tribulation as the “Second Coming,” “Second Advent,” or simply, the “Return.” Instead of maintaining one coming in two stages, they, therefore, can speak of one Second Coming, preceded seven years earlier by the Rapture. But whether there is one coming in two stages, or a Second Coming preceded by the Rapture, the truth of the matter is that in both of these formats the Lord returns twice. And the problem for the non-dispensationalist is in this two-fold nature of His end-time manifestation.

Scriptures are made to fit this two-part system, with some Scriptures said to be referring to the Rapture while other Scriptures are said to be speaking of the Revelation. For example, when Paul says to Titus that believers are to be “looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2:13), the Dispensationalists affirm that this refers to the Rapture, the imminent catching away of the Church by the Lord before the Tribulation. But when John writes in Revelation that “He is coming with clouds, and every eye shall see Him” (1:7), they affirm that this is the Revelation, the public return at the end of the Tribulation. Thus, Scriptures that speak of the Second Coming are divided up, while some are associated with the Rapture others are placed with the Revelation. The challenge, therefore, is to separate properly the passages that refer to the Rapture from the passages that refer to the Revelation. Essential to Dispensationalism is this compartmentalization of Scripture.

The problem with this division of the Scriptures is that they never speak of returns but always the return. They never refer to His comings, but to His coming. The Lord’s return is always, without exception, spoken of in the singular. It is never referred to in the plural. One will search the Scriptures in vain seeking to find the Lord’s Second Coming spoken of in any manner except in the singular. There will not be two returns, three returns, four returns, or more, but only one return. There will not be two stages of the return, just one return. On this the Scriptures are plain and unified. How can anyone pluralize what God has singularized?

In the following passages, regardless of the terminology used, the Second Coming of Christ is always spoken of or referred to in the singular:

    For the Son of Man will come (erchomai) in the glory of His Father (Matt. 16:27);

    What will be the sign of Your coming (parousia) (Matt. 24:3);

    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming
    (parousia) of the Son of Man be (Matt. 24:27);

    Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear (phaiomai) in heaven, and then all the tribes
    of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming (erchomai) on the clouds
    of heaven with power and great glory (Matt. 24:30; Mk. 13:26; Lu. 21:27);

    so also will the coming (parousia) of the Son of Man be (Matt. 24:37, 39);

    you do not know what hour your Lord is coming (erchomai) (Matt. 24:42; Mk. 13:35);

    the Son of Man is coming (erchomai) at an hour you do not expect (Matt. 24:44);

    you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming (erchomai)
    (Matt. 25:13);

    When the Son of Man comes (erchomai) in His glory (Matt. 25:31; Mk. 13:32);

    You will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming (erchomai)
    on the clouds of heaven (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62);

    when He comes (erchomai) in the glory of His Father (Mk. 8:38);

    For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part
    under heaven so also the Son of Man will be in His day (Lu. 17:24);

    Even so it will be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed (apokalupto) (Lu. 17:30);

    In that day (Lu. 17:31);

    When the Son of Man comes (erchomai), will He really find faith on the earth (Lu. 18:8);

    that Day come (ephistemi) on you unexpectedly (Lu. 21:34; “Day” not “Days”);

    I will raise him up at the last day (Jo. 6:40, 44, 54);

    I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day (Jo. 11:24);

    I will come (erchomai) again (Jo. 14:3);

    If I will that he remains till I come (erchomai), what is that to you (Jo. 21:22-23);

    this same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come (erchomai)
    in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven (Acts 1:11; one Ascension and,
    therefore, one return);

    before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord (Acts 2:20);

    waiting for the revelation (apokalupsis) of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 1:7);

    that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 1:8);

    until the Lord comes (erchomai) (1 Cor. 4:5);

    you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes (erchomai) (1 Cor. 11:26);

    those who are Christ’s at His coming (parousia) (1 Cor. 15:23);

    by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30);

    will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:6);

    without offense until the day of Christ (Phil. 1:10);

    that I may rejoice in the day of Christ (Phil. 2:16);

    For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior,
    the Lord Jesus Christ (Phil. 3:20);

    when Christ who is our life appears (phaneroo) (Col. 3:4);

    at His coming (parousia) (I Thess. 2:19);

    at the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints (I Thess. 3:13);

    we who are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord (I Thess. 4:15);

    For the Lord Himself shall descend (katabaino) from heaven (I Thess. 4:16);

    the day of the Lord so comes (erchomai) as a thief in the night (I Thess. 5:2);

    But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake (katalambano)
    you as a thief (I Thess. 5:4);

    be preserved blameless at the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 5:23);

    when the Lord Jesus is revealed (apokalupsis) from heaven (II Thess. 1:7);

    when He comes (erchomai), in that Day, to be glorified in His saints (II Thess. 1:10);

    concerning the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together
    to Him (II Thess. 2:1);

    as though the day of Christ had come (enistemi) (II Thess. 2:2);

    whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness
    (epiphaneia) of His coming (parousia)  (II Thess. 2:8);

    until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing (epiphaneia) (1 Tim. 6:14);

    He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day (II Tim. 1:12);

    that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day (II Tim. 1:18);

    God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead
    at His appearing (epiphaneia) and His kingdom (II Tim. 4:1);

    which the Lord, the righteous Judge will give to me on that Day, and not to me only
    but also to all who have loved His appearing (epiphaneia) (II Tim. 4:8);

    looking for the blessed hope and the glorious appearing (epiphaneia) of our great God
    and Savior Jesus Christ (Tit. 2:13);

    To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear (optomai) a second time,
    apart from sin, for salvation (Heb. 9:28);

    And He who is coming (erchomenos) will come (heko) (Heb. 10:37);

    until the coming (parousia) of the Lord (Ja. 5:7);

    for the coming (parousia) of the Lord is at hand (Ja. 5:8);

    at the revelation (apokalupsis) of Jesus Christ (I Pet. 1:7);

    the grace that is to be brought you at the revelation (apokalupsis)
    of Jesus Christ (I Pet. 1:13);

    when His glory is revealed (apokalupsis) (I Pet. 4:13);

    when the Chief Shepherd appears (phaneroo) (I Pet. 5:4);

    where is the promise of His coming (parousia) (2 Pet. 3:4);

    But the day of the Lord will come (heko) as a thief in the night (2 Pet. 3:10);

    looking for and hastening the coming (parousia) of the day of God (II Pet. 3:12);

    when He appears (phaneroo), we may have confidence and not be ashamed
    before Him at His coming (parousia) (I Jo. 2:28);

    we know that when He is revealed (phaneroo), we shall be like Him (I Jo. 3:2);

    He is coming (erchomai) with clouds (Rev. 1:7);

    Behold, I am coming (erchomai as a thief (Rev. 16:15);

    Behold, I am coming (erchomai) quickly (Rev. 22:7).

 

According to the Scriptures Jess will return two more times: The first time, in the clouds of the air, before the tribulation begins, recorded in 2 Thess.2:3 and in 7-8.  He will return the second time, in His first return to the earth, from His marriage to the Bride/Church in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-8, in verse 14, as documented in the OP below:

>>>The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.<<<


Quasar93

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4 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

According to the Scriptures Jess will return two more times: The first time, in the clouds of the air, before the tribulation begins, recorded in 2 Thess.2:3 and in 7-8.  He will return the second time, in His first return to the earth, from His marriage to the Bride/Church in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-8, in verse 14, as documented in the OP below:

>>>The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.<<<


Quasar93

 

The chronological order of end time events:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.


Quasar93

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5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Hi Spock! Too long since we chatted! Accuracy comes from meditation and waiting on the Lord. It is really not that difficult: in verse 3B the man of sin is revealed (In Paul's argument).

Since he is revealed in 3b, then the truth of verses 6 -8 must have happened: the one restraining has to be taken out of the way in 3A. If words mean anything, this has to be truth. However, there is nothing except this Greek Word, "apostosia" that could possibly be any entity taken out of the way.

It is VERY interesting when Paul wrote, "Now you know what restrains"...... as if he had just told us. In fact, HE DID...but did it in a way that might be overlooked, so he penned "now you know" so people would read more carefully or back up and study..

 

You are Spock: you will see it. It is logical.

 

With the RCC doctrine of Amillennialism, that denies both the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, as well as the pre-trib rapture of the Church, for more thn 1,600 years, is the reason the pre-trib rapture of the Church has been hidden from the Church, until Margaret McDonald and John Darby exposed it.

 

Quasar93t

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Soooo do rapturist just disregard Matthew 24 Mark 13 and the Book of Revelation since it dosn't pertain to them?

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6 hours ago, Spock said:

Nice metaphor, Dennis.

it makes sense to me, God’s wrath is not meant for the bride of Christ because hasn’t Christ done enough to pay for our sins?

so what is the GT for if it is not for the bride?

ahhhhh, how about purging Israel for their unbelief, and spanking a whole lot of unbelievers. 

So much we need to know,starting with who is Israel?Is not the bride getting beat up now.

What do Chinese ,Russian and Islamic Christians getting killed now?

Have not Christians been going through tribulation since forever,why do you all(rapturist)feel you are more worthy to escape what they are going through to this day?

I mean, is it a western thing,would you feel different if you were living in one of the Easu nations?

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