Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

[Quasar93]

28 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Nothing is confirmed with 2 Thess 2:3

I'm addressing your so called symbolism of john/church rev 4

The symbolism is inconsistent

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the church?

The Scriptures thoroughly refute you, as my posts clearly reveal to you.  The following as another example:

 

>>>ranslation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure."  In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation of the Greek Septuagint, known as the Vulgate, from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the Latin word "discessio," also meaning " departure." Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].<<<

 

Quasar93
 

[inchrist]

12 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

The Scriptures thoroughly refute you, as my posts clearly reveal to you.  The following as another example:

 

>>>ranslation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure."  In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation of the Greek Septuagint, known as the Vulgate, from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the Latin word "discessio," also meaning " departure." Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].<<<

 

Quasar93
 

Please answer my question

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the church?

[Quasar93]

12 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Please answer my question

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the church?

If the Church didn't get into heaven as when 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 reveal, then supposing you tell me how they are present for the marriage that take place in heaven, according to Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.  Then return with Jesus from heaven in verse 14!  You remain refuted!  Case closed!

 

Quasar93

[inchrist]

10 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

If the Church didn't get into heaven as when 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 reveal, then supposing you tell me how they are present for the marriage that take place in heaven, according to Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.  Then return with Jesus from heaven in verse 14!  You remain refuted!  Case closed!

 

Quasar93

Can you please try remain focused as I wish to apply due diligence to all the verses you are giving me, and believe me we will go through them all, but right now, I am only interested in Rev 4 of John being a symbol of the raptured church.

The Christian thing to do now teacher is to answer a students question.

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the raptured church?

Do you have any scripture evidence of John ever being used as a symbol of the raptured church outside of Revelation or outside of Rev 4?

What contextual evidence do you have within the verse of Rev 4 for the symbolism of John being the raptured church?

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by inchrist

[Quasar93]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Can you please try remain focused as I wish to apply due diligence to all the verses you are giving me, and believe me we will go through them all, but right now, I am only interested in Rev 4 of John being a symbol of the raptured church.

The Christian thing to do now teacher is to answer a students question.

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the raptured church?

Do you have any scripture evidence of John ever being used as a symbol of the raptured church outside of Revelation or outside of Rev 4?

What contextual evidence do you have within the verse of Rev 4 for the symbolism of John being the raptured church?

 

 

Let me see your Scriptural evidence the Church was not in heaven before the man of lawlessness [Same person as all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] as 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 tell us it will be!

 

Quassar93

[inchrist]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Let me see your Scriptural evidence the Church was not in heaven before the man of lawlessness

Rev 11:18

The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name,

Like 14:14

Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

No symbolism needed, its literal.

Since Ive been kind enough to answer your question, please answer mine

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the raptured church?

Do you have any scripture evidence of John ever being used as a symbol of the raptured church outside of Revelation or outside of Rev 4?

What contextual evidence do you have within the verse of Rev 4 for the symbolism of John being the raptured church?

[Quasar93]

21 hours ago, inchrist said:

Rev 11:18

The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name,

Like 14:14

Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

No symbolism needed, its literal.

Since Ive been kind enough to answer your question, please answer mine

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the raptured church?

Do you have any scripture evidence of John ever being used as a symbol of the raptured church outside of Revelation or outside of Rev 4?

What contextual evidence do you have within the verse of Rev 4 for the symbolism of John being the raptured church?

 

Ancient Jewish Marriage customs

 

Gen.29:20 "So Jacob served seven years for Rachel and they seemed to him but a few days because of his love for her."

 

Precisely as the case is with the Bride/Church to the marriage to the Lamb/Jesus in Rev.19:7-8, in the seven year span, from Jesus using John to symbolize the Church. in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8, Jn.14:2-3, 28 and 1 Thess.4:16-17, until the second coming of Jesus, with His Church, from the marriagein heaven, as recorded in Rev.19:14.  A seven year period of time, as recorded in Dan.9:27.

 

There is nothing at all in your above post that refutes a single passage of Scripture that teaches the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded below:

 

 https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

 

Quasar93

 

[inchrist]

13 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Ancient Jewish Marriage customs

 

Gen.29:20 "So Jacob served seven years for Rachel and they seemed to him but a few days because of his love for her."

 

 

Yes and Jacob had two brides, preciously as christ.

Jacob worked 7 years for leah

Christ works 7 yrs for his first bride (house of Ephraim) 70 weeks

Jacob then married rachel and worked a further 7 yrs

Christ will then marry his second bride (house of judah) amd will work a further 7 years for Judah buring weapons (7 yrs)

 Ancient Jewish Marriage customs

You should also be aware in ancient jewish customs, two witnesses needed to escort the bride safely to the groom.

 There is nothing at all in your above post that refutes a single passage of Scripture that teaches the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded below:

Thats an opinion not a scriptual rebuttal

What does the term time to judge the dead mean? Or to reward your servants mean?

[Psalms37:4]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Yes and Jacob had two brides, preciously as christ.

Jacob worked 7 years for leah

Christ works 7 yrs for his first bride (house of Ephraim) 70 weeks

Jacob then married rachel and worked a further 7 yrs

Christ will then marry his second bride (house of judah) amd will work a further 7 years for Judah buring weapons (7 yrs)

Oh brother!    Stay away from this guy's teachings.

[Quasar93]

8 hours ago, inchrist said:

Yes and Jacob had two brides, preciously as christ.

Jacob worked 7 years for leah

Christ works 7 yrs for his first bride (house of Ephraim) 70 weeks

Jacob then married rachel and worked a further 7 yrs

Christ will then marry his second bride (house of judah) amd will work a further 7 years for Judah buring weapons (7 yrs)

 

 

You should also be aware in ancient jewish customs, two witnesses needed to escort the bride safely to the groom.

 

 

Thats an opinion not a scriptual rebuttal

What does the term time to judge the dead mean? Or to reward your servants mean?

 

Your attempt to argue away the fact that Jesus used John to represent the Church, symbolically being called up into heaven, is nothing but a smoke screen to hide the Scriptural facts that fully confirm it, but re4fute you as well, as you have been presented with before - as documented in the following:

 2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!

 

Quasar93