Who confirms a covenant with many?

[Uriah]

Gen. 17:4-As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 

Without Jesus to fulfill this promise, we would be lost. In Mat. 26, He was quoting Daniel 9. Those who think He got it wrong and didn't realize Dan. 9 was referring to an anti-Christ should look again.

Rom. 5:15- But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Heb. 2:20- For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 9:28- So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

[Uriah]

OK what about the implications of this positions? How does it work with other teachings about the a/c in the temple? The abomination in the Holy Place etc? Any thoughts?

[Retrobyter]

On 12/13/2017 at 12:43 AM, Daniel 11:36 said:

It is the Lord who will confirm the covenant with a remnant of Israel for one week [the 70th week decreed]

And it is the other prince who will bring desolation to Israel

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

The "other prince who will bring desolation to Israel" already DID! This desolation, fulfilling the pronouncement of the Messiah Yeshua` when He left their household "desolate" was Titus (the general) who brought his Roman troops to Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple and took the population captive into the Diaspora in 70 A.D. It was the future at the time of the prophecy, but it is now in our PAST.

[Daniel 11:36]

"The "other prince who will bring desolation to Israel" already DID!"

 

The "other prince" has not yet come

Your idea is in the past

[Justin Adams]

On 12/14/2017 at 1:09 AM, Uriah said:

OK what about the implications of this positions? How does it work with other teachings about the a/c in the temple? The abomination in the Holy Place etc? Any thoughts?

Lots of thoughts.

I see Yeshua saying that 'as in the days of Noah', this and that person will be taken. (to death)

In Esdras I read that many will also be taken (to destruction) and the ones LEFT are more blessed and will endure hardship.

This is in complete opposition to the pre-trib rapture and I am wondering if the church has been doing what Yeshuah warned against saying: 'Many will come In My Name' (the church) and say this and that and deceive multitudes.

[Justin Adams]

Consolidate. Complete. Finish.

Think on this. Furnace and Fire (Light) passed thru the offerings while Abraham slept. COVENANT

There is only one that can CONFIRM, and that is He that originally struck it with Yahweh. The 'Light' or Fire. Yeshua Confirms the original covenant He and Yahweh made.

Confirm = bare witness to the truth of a matter. Consolidate. Complete. Finish.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Justin Adams

[Retrobyter]

22 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"The "other prince who will bring desolation to Israel" already DID!"

 

The "other prince" has not yet come

Your idea is in the past

Shabbat shalom, Daniel 11:36.

Sorry, but those who fail to learn from history are doomed to think that history must be repeated (or occur for the "first time," in their way of thinking).

The "antichrist" is not a person but a philosophy. It's someone who is set against Yeshua` being the Messiah of God. That can come from multiple sources that depend upon the source's perspective.

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1 John 2:18-29 (KJV)

Beware of Antichrists

18Little children, it is the last time (Greek: eschatee hoora = "[the] hour [time] of-[the]-end"): and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20But ye have an unction (Greek: chrisma = "an-anointing," the root of "christos" from which we get the word "Christ") from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus (Greek: Ieesous [pronounced "yay-SOOS"]  = Hebrew: Yeeshuwa` [pronounced "yay-SHOO-gah"]) is the Christ (the Messiah)? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Continue in Him

28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Of course, the Jew who vehemently denies that Yeshua` was (and is) the Messiah of God does so because to entertain the thought that He may indeed be the Messiah means that he has to SCRAP the way he and his ancestors have looked at Yeshua` ("Jesus") and the Messiah of God for centuries and accept that they were all WRONG! It means having the courage to start over from SCRATCH and consider the possibility that these Christians (whom they refer to as "Missionaries") were RIGHT ALL ALONG! That's a scary position in which to find oneself! Compound this with the fact that they are likely to be shunned by their families and friends for admitting that he is even considering that Yeshua` was (and is) the very Messiah of God, and one can see why a Jew would have such difficulty accepting the truth when it smacks him in the face as being undeniable and incontrovertible!

ON THE OTHER HAND,

the person who calls himself a "Christian" can be just as equally in such a situation when he or she vehemently denies that Jesus (Yeshua`) is the Jewish Messiah. Many "Christians" think that "Jesus is the Christ" means "Jesus is God!" That is NOT what the words mean!

They will frequently get this twisted interpretation from Matthew 16:

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Matthew 16:13-23 (KJV)

Peter's Confession of Christ

(Mark 8:27-30; Luke 9:18-20; John 6:66-71)

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection

(Mark 8:31-33; Luke 9:21-22)

21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

But, these are TWO SEPARATE THINGS. He is the Christ, the Messiah of God, AND He is the Son of the living God. They are not the same thing, although they ARE complementary. BOTH mean that He is the One Chosen or Selected (Hebrew: mashiyach) by God to be the King of His Kingdom--the same Kingdom over which David, His ancestor, ruled--the Kingdom of Israel.

We can read,

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2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

David Plans a Temple

1And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains. 3And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.

God's Covenant with David

(1 Chronicles 17:1-15)

4And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar?

8Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. 17According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Confirmed by...

Quote

 

1 Chronicles 17:1-15 (KJV)

God's Covenant with David

(2 Samuel 7:4-17)

1Now it came to pass, as David sat in his house, that David said to Nathan the prophet, Lo, I dwell in an house of cedars, but the ark of the covenant of the LORD remaineth under curtains. 2Then Nathan said unto David, Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee.

3And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, 4Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in: 5For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. 6Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? 7Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel: 8And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth. 9Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, 10And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house. 11And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. 15According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

 

It's not a prophecy, per se, that "I will be his father, and he shall be my son"; it's more a statement of FACT!

And, we also read,

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Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

And,, while that includes the Millennium, it shall be FAR LONGER than a mere 1000 years that He rules and reigns from Jerusalem over all the children of Y'hudah (the Jews) and over all the children of Israel! Thus, it's an EARTHLY Kingdom, although it shall be a Kingdom upon the New Earth after the Millennium.

[Retrobyter]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:39 PM, Justin Adams said:

Consolidate. Complete. Finish.

Think on this. Furnace and Fire (Light) passed thru the offerings while Abraham slept. COVENANT

There is only one that can CONFIRM, and that is He that originally struck it with Yahweh. The 'Light' or Fire. Yeshua Confirms the original covenant He and Yahweh made.

Confirm = bare witness to the truth of a matter. Consolidate. Complete. Finish.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Sorry, but that is NOT what "confirm" means in Daniel 9:27!

Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV)

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Hebrew word is "vhigbiyr" coming from "gaaVar" (spelled "gimmel-vet-reish" [g-V-r], "vet" being the undotted "bet") meaning "to be strong; mighty." The word "vhigbiyr (briyt)" means "and-he-shall-make-(a-covenant)-strong." Some say that "gabar" ("gaaVar") means "to prevail," but that means "to overcome" or "to win." And, that makes absolutely NO sense in context, unless they're saying that "he shall make (a covenant) to prevail or to overcome or to win" in some sense.

[Daniel 11:36]

"The "antichrist" is not a person but a philosophy."

 

You are flat wrong about this son .... the antichrist during the 70th week decreed is most definitely defined as a person

He is Abaddon/Apolloyn in the little human little horn of Daniel's visions

[Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:7-18]  

[Retrobyter]

On 12/17/2017 at 12:34 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

"The "antichrist" is not a person but a philosophy."

 

You are flat wrong about this son .... the antichrist during the 70th week decreed is most definitely defined as a person

He is Abaddon/Apolloyn in the little human little horn of Daniel's visions

[Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:7-18]  

Shalom, Daniel 11:36.

First, I'm not your "son!" I'm a sixty-year-old grandpa, and I CERTAINLY don't consider you a "father" figure for me! Furthermore, I thoroughly dislike being patronized!

Second, there is NO "antichrist during the 70th week decreed!" That's pure fiction from theology and does not come from Scripture at all. It comes from the imaginations of human beings. In fact, being the very thing under scrutiny, this might be considered as CIRCULAR REASONING, because it is yet to be determined that the "antichrist" appears in Daniel 9 at all!

Third, Abaddown/Apolluon are the names of the king of the LOCUSTS - GRASSHOPPERS, not "demons"- that rise out of the smoke from the freshly opened pit with no sounded bottom. These names do NOT mean "destroyer"; they mean "destruction" and those names refer to the destruction of this SPECIES in only 5 months!

Fourth, technically, the PERSON who is recorded in 2 Thessalonians and Revelation is NOT the "antichrist"; he is the "beast" and/or the "man of sin" - the man against Torah. The term "antichrist" is used VERY SPECIFICALLY for the attitude - the spirit - the philosophy of being "against the Messiah" and John describes it:

1 John 2:18-27 (KJV)

Beware of Antichrists

18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that [an] antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20But ye have an unction [an anointing] from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah)? He is [the] antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

and,

1 John 4:1-21 (KJV)

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Love Comes from God

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19We love him, because he first loved us. 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Therefore, John doesn't see this "antichrist" as a specific person but as a specific ATTITUDE! When talking about the "man of sin" or the "beast," the word "antichrist" is a misnomer.