Question I've Pondered

[Dennis1209]

We're all familiar with the story of the beggar and rich man. How they were able to communicate between a great divide in Hades, between Abraham's bosom and torment. A two way street if you will. Of course this could have been a one time event, much like God allowing Saul to conjure up Samuel via the witch of Endor.

When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?

My question is; would you think the Lord may allow our saved loved ones whom are presently in Heaven, to view us and / or watch us here on earth? Possibly for the hope of their loved ones to come to know and accept Jesus as their personal savior? There's no doubt our whole lives are being recorded to bear witness at our judgment, possibly by angels. I don't find anything scriptural that even suggests those souls in heaven are concerned about what goes on on earth, or can witness anything.  

To my understanding, the Lord does not wipe away our tears until after the millennium (Rev 21: 4). 

Any thoughts?

[JohnD]

The Luke passage refers to the holding pattern after death between the two eternities (Sheol the grave) abode of the spirits of man. BEFORE the cross. I find it fascinating the similarities between these disembodied spirits and human (body) traits. Sight, speech, thirst, sensation of fire, experiencing rest, having a finger, a tongue, eyes, interacting with water (to wet a finger and to quench a thirst).

We imagine our spirits to be wills of the wisp, clouds, invisible entities that are fuzzy in our descriptions and whose boundaries are hard to  define....

What if they are exactly like we are but of another reality / dimension? That quantum "elsewhere" aspect of things popping in and out of existence. The quantum evidence actually drove an atheist quantum physicist to commit suicide. I guess rather than believe there is a spirit realm. Others just scratch their head and pray for dark matter to reveal itself.

So point to yourself where you do not believe you are also spirit. The ancients believes it was in the torso only. Modern man tends to believe the spirit resides in the brain only.

 

[JohnD]

Oh, and Jesus wipes away my tears all the time.

I interpret the reference to heaven and him wiping away every tear

more or less a reference to the tears of joy we will shed to be there as

well as the tears of regret that we did not do more than we have to serve him

or to warn others about hell.

[7trumpets]

24 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

We're all familiar with the story of the beggar and rich man. How they were able to communicate between a great divide in Hades, between Abraham's bosom and torment. A two way street if you will. Of course this could have been a one time event, much like God allowing Saul to conjure up Samuel via the witch of Endor.

When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?

My question is; would you think the Lord may allow our saved loved ones whom are presently in Heaven, to view us and / or watch us here on earth? Possibly for the hope of their loved ones to come to know and accept Jesus as their personal savior? There's no doubt our whole lives are being recorded to bear witness at our judgment, possibly by angels. I don't find anything scriptural that even suggests those souls in heaven are concerned about what goes on on earth, or can witness anything.  

To my understanding, the Lord does not wipe away our tears until after the millennium (Rev 21: 4). 

Any thoughts?

You will find your answer here.   And this is what its like in heaven.

Luk 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

They can see each other but can't cross that gulf/chasma

gulf G5490 chasma
khas'-mah
From a form of an obsolete primary “chao” (to “gape” or “yawn”); a “chasm” or vacancy (impassable interval): - gulf.

Luke 16:27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luke 16:29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

So what you have is unbelievers on one side of the gulf and believers on the other side.

But that is OK they will be taught in the Millennium. 

Eze 44:23 And they(Zadock) shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

That is to say the difference between Holy(Christ) and the profane (Anti-christ).    

 

 

[simplejeff]

4 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

 I'd always heard that there are no tears in Heaven (presently)

This is true. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ in line with all Scripture I'm aware of, et al.

5 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

 Tears being wiped away is still future.

For some for whom it has not happened yet on earth, it may still happen soon on earth. (i.e. "future" on earth)

For most ekklesia, "continually full of righteousness, peace and joy" (thru all things, every day),

their tears have already been wiped away - they passed through death into life , abiding now on earth as one with Jesus as He prayed in John 17.

The victory is before death.  Overcoming sin , being cleansed of all guilt and shame is before death.

Being filled as the early believers were, as written in Scripture, is before dying physically.

[coheir]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

We're all familiar with the story of the beggar and rich man. How they were able to communicate between a great divide in Hades, between Abraham's bosom and torment. A two way street if you will. Of course this could have been a one time event, much like God allowing Saul to conjure up Samuel via the witch of Endor.

When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?

My question is; would you think the Lord may allow our saved loved ones whom are presently in Heaven, to view us and / or watch us here on earth? Possibly for the hope of their loved ones to come to know and accept Jesus as their personal savior? There's no doubt our whole lives are being recorded to bear witness at our judgment, possibly by angels. I don't find anything scriptural that even suggests those souls in heaven are concerned about what goes on on earth, or can witness anything.  

To my understanding, the Lord does not wipe away our tears until after the millennium (Rev 21: 4). 

Any thoughts?

God promises no more pain or hurt or grief. If one is in heaven looking down on their loved one hoping they make the right choice and see they make the wrong choice they will have grief and pain. No I do not believe  relatives go through that if in heaven.

[missmuffet]

Question: "Can people in heaven look down and see us?"

Answer: Some see in Hebrews 12:1 the idea that people in heaven might be able to look down and see us: “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. . . .” The “witnesses” are the heroes of faith listed in Hebrews 11, and the fact that we are “surrounded” by them leads some commentators to understand those heroes (and possibly other people) are looking down on us from heaven.

The idea that people are looking down from heaven to see what we’re doing is common in popular culture. But, as much as we might like the notion that we’re being watched by our departed loved ones, that’s not what Hebrews 12:1 is teaching. Building on Hebrews 11, the author begins drawing up some practical lessons (that’s why chapter 12 begins with “Therefore”). The “witnesses” are the people whom God commends for their faith in chapter 11, and there is a large crowd of them in heaven. The question is, in what way are they “witnesses”?

The proper interpretation of Hebrews 12:1 is that the men and women forming the “great cloud of witnesses” are witness to the value of living life by faith. Their Old Testament stories give testimony to the blessings of choosing faith over fear. To paraphrase the start of Hebrews 12:1, “Since we have so many tried-and-true examples of proven faith . . . .” So, it’s not that people are in heaven watching us (as if our lives on earth are so interesting or they have nothing better to do!), but that those who have gone before us have set a lasting example for us. The record of their lives bears witness to faith and God and truth.

Hebrews 12:1 continues, “Let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.” Because of the faith and endurance of believers who went before us, we are inspired to stay the course in our own race of faith. We follow the examples of Abraham and Moses and Rahab and Gideon and etc.

Some people point to the rich man’s mention of his brothers in Luke 16:28 as proof that departed souls (in Hades, at least) can see events on earth. However, the passage never says that the rich man could see his brothers; he knew he had brothers, and he knew they were unbelievers. Also, some people use Revelation 6:10 as a proof text: the tribulation martyrs call for God to avenge their deaths. Again, this passage says nothing about the martyrs seeing people on earth; it simply says that they knew they deserved justice and desired the Lord to take action.

The Bible doesn’t specifically say that people in heaven cannot look down on us, so we can’t be dogmatic. However, it is unlikely that they can. People in heaven are likely preoccupied with other things such as worshipping God and enjoying the glories of heaven.

Whether or not people in heaven can look down and see us, we are not running our race for them. We are not hoping for their approval or listening for their applause. Hebrews 12:2 keeps our focus where it belongs: “Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.” Jesus is our blessed hope, no other (Titus 2:13).

https://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-look-down.html

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

We're all familiar with the story of the beggar and rich man. How they were able to communicate between a great divide in Hades, between Abraham's bosom and torment. A two way street if you will. Of course this could have been a one time event, much like God allowing Saul to conjure up Samuel via the witch of Endor.

When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?

My question is; would you think the Lord may allow our saved loved ones whom are presently in Heaven, to view us and / or watch us here on earth? Possibly for the hope of their loved ones to come to know and accept Jesus as their personal savior? There's no doubt our whole lives are being recorded to bear witness at our judgment, possibly by angels. I don't find anything scriptural that even suggests those souls in heaven are concerned about what goes on on earth, or can witness anything.  

To my understanding, the Lord does not wipe away our tears until after the millennium (Rev 21: 4). 

Any thoughts?

Hi Dennis,

We can rest assured that those who have gone on before us, promoted to glory, are in Christ, and are resting in His glorious presence.

`For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him THOSE WHO SLEEP IN JESUS......Therefore comfort one another with these words.` (1 Thess. 4: 14 - 18)

Sleep - Gk. word `koimesis ` meaning sleeping, repose, taking of rest.

all the best, Marilyn.

 

 

[Neighbor]

15 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

We're all familiar with the story of the beggar and rich man. How they were able to communicate between a great divide in Hades, between Abraham's bosom and torment. A two way street if you will. Of course this could have been a one time event, much like God allowing Saul to conjure up Samuel via the witch of Endor.

When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?

My question is; would you think the Lord may allow our saved loved ones whom are presently in Heaven, to view us and / or watch us here on earth? Possibly for the hope of their loved ones to come to know and accept Jesus as their personal savior? There's no doubt our whole lives are being recorded to bear witness at our judgment, possibly by angels. I don't find anything scriptural that even suggests those souls in heaven are concerned about what goes on on earth, or can witness anything.  

To my understanding, the Lord does not wipe away our tears until after the millennium (Rev 21: 4). 

Any thoughts?

"When a sinner repents, the angel's shout with joy (Luke 15: 10). Therefor they must be watching?"

Maybe but not necessarily so. Angels may be sent to provide assistance to the Holy Spirit. They even speak through animals on rare occasion I suppose.  There are guardian angels, and angels appearing as humans too. So why cannot there be communication as well as travel by angels to and from heaven rather than all seeing angels? Ex; None of us see all things, but we rejoice in many things happening that we learn about. Satan even travels about the earth and has appeared among the angels at Heaven. Job 1:6 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Neighbor

[7trumpets]

14 hours ago, Abby-Joy said:

At this time, I don't have a comment on all of your post... but the part in bold (above) is something most people overlook.  I'd always heard that there are no tears in Heaven (presently) but once when I saw in the spirit, the tears of our Lord, I looked in the Scriptures to see if it was Biblical, and it is.  Tears being wiped away is still future.  Our Lord Jesus, our Great High Priest, is touched with the feeling of our infirmities... every sorrow we (all of humanity) have felt, He has felt. 

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Chapter 21 is speaking of the "Eternity. " 

Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Many causes for tears,  no more dying beds, funerals, or graves.  Sorrow ceases and mourning is at an end.

Isaiah 25:8  He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

No more pain because you are in those perfect Spiritual bodies.   We won't have any evil persons with us anymore.    Satan and those that follow him went into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20) at the end of the millennium.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful,(faithless) and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers( a magician or drug pusher), and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The second death is death of the soul.   

The Eternity is going to be a wonderful place.