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Psalm 50 I believe is thrilling about pre-trib rapture

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 I believe in past weeks the Lord has given me new insights from Psalm 50, on the imminent rapture of those believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior.  See Scripture references at end hereof.
Psalm 50, with my comments in brackets:
1 (A Psalm of Asaph.)  The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:  a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him.  [note by Mary:  These words remind me of the fire when Elijah was taken up into heaven, II Kings 2:11 ("there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder").  The following verses then tell who it is that He is coming for.  Christians are told to "wait for His Son"  I Thess. 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.   Jesus promised He will come for us, John 14:18, and this is our blessed hope, and our comfort.
4  He shall call to the heavens above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people.  [I Thess. 4:18 states that He shall descend from heaven "with a shout" and that the "dead in Christ" and "we which are alive" shall be separated  from others and brought before Him for judgment.  This indicates that the time is when God calls out.  Judgement of His people is specifically referred to, and a separating of His people is implied and points to to the timing of rewards or lack thereof to Christians (I Cor. 3:11-15, regarding judgment for rewards or loss to believers.]
Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.  [This again echoes the words of I Thess. 4:18:  "caught up together" and the verses indicate who He will gather.  Believers accept Christ's death as their sacrifice.]
6  And the heavens shall declare his righteousness:  for God is judge himself.  Selah  [This emphasizes that the heavens will testify that God keeps His promises and the rapture of Christians through the heavens will reveal this to the world in a marvelous way.   Judgment is again referred to.]
7  Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee:  I am God, even thy God.  [Then we come to the point where the Psalm reveals that there is a message to Israel, to Jews who had not accepted Christ.]
8  I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me.  [This possibly suggests that the animal sacrifices are occurring at the time of the rapture.]
9  I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds.
10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
11  I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.
12  If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
13  Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?
14  Offer unto God thanksgiving: and pay thy vows unto the most High:  [This is advice to Israel, and indicates that some will realize that Jesus was their Messiah and that they can be thankful for this knowledge, and make a vow to Him.   It points to the need of Israel to accept the sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus.   I believe many will immediately do so.]
15  And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.  [The Lord tells Israel what to do, gives His promise that He will deliver them too, and gives the outcome, that Israel shall glorify their Savior.]
16  But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?  [Beginning with this verse, the Lord speaks to the wicked, and tells them they should take His covenant and declare His statutes, and that they have rejected Him and come under the law of sin.  Sinners must start with realizing this and that they are in the time of trouble when His wrath is poured out.  (Those who deny the imminent pre-tribulation rapture would change the word "wrath" to "wrath after death" when the Scripture indicates that we will be delivered from wrath.]  
17  Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.  
18  When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and has been partaker with adulterers.  
19  Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.  
20  Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.  
21  These things has thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.  
22  Now consider this ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

So the Lord then promises salvation to the one who orders his conversation right, and offers praise, glorifying God.  Jesus' Name means salvation, and some of those left behind, not among the gathered people, will receive Him and be saved during the tribulation.
 ***
Scripture references: 

II Kings 2:11  And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.   In Ezekiel chapter 1, " Ezekiel 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself,

I Thess. 1:10 (wait for His Son from heaven....) 

I Thess. 4:18 (For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout ....);

John 14:3 (I will come again, and receive you unto myself);

John 14:18 (... will not leave you comfortless, I will come for you);

Titus 2:13 (Looking for that blessed hope);

Psalm 27:10 (In the secret of His tabernacle shall He hide me.); 

I Thess. 5:9 (God hath not appointed us to wrath);

Romans 5:9 (justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him);

Rev. 3:10 (I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation);

Heb. 10:19 (come into the holy place through the blood of Jesus); 

I Cor. 3:11-15 (gold, ... hay, stubble, ... reward ... loss)  Psalm 91 (the dragon shalt thou trample under feet);

Psalm 34:7 (the angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear Him).  

Luke 12:32 (Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.)

Edited by Mary8
insert about Elijah taken up; add I Thess 1:10
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Without one pre-trib rapture verse that has the rapture before the tribulation.

Then has the gall to quote post trib verses and then CLAIM they are pre-trib, for the disconnect!

1 Thess is clearly post trib and at the last day.

We shall NOT prevent them which are asleep.

And we all know that the resurrection is at the last day, not seven years before the last day.

*******

Even Jesus shows resurrection first and then the rapture with it in John eleven :25,26.

*******

PeterAV

Every word of God is pure:

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The Lord will extract His own first .... then the tribulation period will begin [Revelation 3:10; 6:12-17]

Some who become believers during the tribulation will die and some will not

Those who are killed will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation and those who are still alive will enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals [Israel: Matthew 24:30-31; Revelation 20:4] [Gentiles: Matthew 25:31-33]

Read your Bible

 

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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8 hours ago, PeterAV said:

Without one pre-trib rapture verse that has the rapture before the tribulation.

Did you try reading the OP first?

 

8 hours ago, PeterAV said:

Then has the gall to quote post trib verses and then CLAIM they are pre-trib, for the disconnect!

One of the verse she posted is John 14:3. This is clearly not a post trib verse as the highest your rapture view can go up is to the air follow by a U-turn in the sky. 

John 14:3 New King James Version (NKJV)

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

 

8 hours ago, PeterAV said:

And we all know that the resurrection is at the last day, not seven years before the last day.

If that's so, how did Martha knew when the last day would occur if bible prophecies in the NT was not written till sometime after Christ passed away?

Christ revealed the Olivet Discourse only to His disciples privately and no one else.

John 11:24 New King James Version (NKJV)

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

 

 

 

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On 12/2/2017 at 8:11 PM, Mary8 said:

 I believe in past weeks the Lord has given me new insights from Psalm 50, on the imminent rapture of those believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior.  See Scripture references at end hereof.
Psalm 50, with my comments in brackets:
1 (A Psalm of Asaph.)  The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
2  Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:  a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him.  [note by Mary:  These words remind me of the fire when Elijah was taken up into heaven, II Kings 2:11 ("there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder").  The following verses tell who it is that He is coming for.  Christians are told to "wait for His Son"  I Thess. 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.   Jesus promised He will come for us, John 14:18, and this is our blessed hope, and our comfort.
4  He shall call to the heavens above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people.  [I Thess. 4:18 states that He shall descend from heaven "with a shout" and that the "dead in Christ" and "we which are alive" shall be separated  from others and brought before Him for judgment.  This indicates that the time is when God calls out.  Judgement of His people is specifically referred to, and a separating of His people is implied and points to to the timing of rewards or lack thereof to Christians (I Cor. 3:11-15, regarding judgment for rewards or loss to believers.]
Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.  [This again echoes the words of I Thess. 4:18:  "caught up together" and the verses indicate who He will gather.  Believers accept Christ's death as their sacrifice.]
6  And the heavens shall declare his righteousness:  for God is judge himself.  Selah  [This emphasizes that the heavens will testify that God keeps His promises and the rapture of Christians through the heavens will reveal this to the world in a marvelous way.   Judgment is again referred to.]
7  Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee:  I am God, even thy God.  [Then we come to the point where the Psalm reveals that there is a message to Israel, to Jews who had not accepted Christ.]
8  I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me.  [This possibly suggests that the animal sacrifices are occurring at the time of the rapture.]
9  I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds.
10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
11  I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.
12  If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.
13  Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?
14  Offer unto God thanksgiving: and pay thy vows unto the most High:  [This is advice to Israel, and indicates that some will realize that Jesus was their Messiah and that they can be thankful for this knowledge, and make a vow to Him.   It points to the need of Israel to accept the sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus.   I believe many will immediately do so.]
15  And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.  [The Lord tells Israel what to do, gives His promise that He will deliver them too, and gives the outcome, that Israel shall glorify their Savior.]
16  But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?  [Beginning with this verse, the Lord speaks to the wicked, and tells them they should take His covenant and declare His statutes, and that they have rejected Him and come under the law of sin.  Sinners must start with realizing this and that they are in the time of trouble when His wrath is poured out.  (Those who deny the imminent pre-tribulation rapture would change the word "wrath" to "wrath after death" when the Scripture indicates that we will be delivered from wrath.]  
17  Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.  
18  When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and has been partaker with adulterers.  
19  Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.  
20  Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.  
21  These things has thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.  
22  Now consider this ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
Verse 23 Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

So the Lord then promises salvation to the one who orders his conversation right, and offers praise, glorifying God.  Jesus' Name means salvation, and some of those left behind, not among the gathered people, will receive Him and be saved during the tribulation.
 ***
Scripture references: 

II Kings 2:11  And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.   In Ezekiel chapter 1, " Ezekiel 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself,

I Thess. 1:10 (wait for His Son from heaven....) 

I Thess. 4:18 (For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout ....);

John 14:3 (I will come again, and receive you unto myself);

John 14:18 (... will not leave you comfortless, I will come for you);

Titus 2:13 (Looking for that blessed hope);

Psalm 27:10 (In the secret of His tabernacle shall He hide me.); 

I Thess. 5:9 (God hath not appointed us to wrath);

Romans 5:9 (justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him);

Rev. 3:10 (I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation);

Heb. 10:19 (come into the holy place through the blood of Jesus); 

I Cor. 3:11-15 (gold, ... hay, stubble, ... reward ... loss)  Psalm 91 (the dragon shalt thou trample under feet);

Psalm 34:7 (the angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear Him).  

Luke 12:32 (Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.)

I think this is good stuff Mary8. Thank you for sharing.

 

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Psalms 37:4,   I enjoyed your comment about post-trib claim of part way up then followed by a "U turn in the sky."    I have been picturing the post-trib timing as they claim believers going up, clothed in white garments, being instantly catapulted onto the white horses and down again.    Praise the Lord, He will deliver us from wrath!

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9 hours ago, Mary8 said:

Psalms 37:4,   I enjoyed your comment about post-trib claim of part way up then followed by a "U turn in the sky."    I have been picturing the post-trib timing as they claim believers going up, clothed in white garments, being instantly catapulted onto the white horses and down again.    Praise the Lord, He will deliver us from wrath!

Amen Mary8! Great will be that day when He comes to deliver us from wrath.

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One thing I find curious as well as interesting. A number of places in the Bible, the mode of transportation is white horses. One example that peaks my interest, is the Saints and Jesus coming back to earth on white horse's spoken of in Revelation. 

Think of the implications if these white horses are literal? 

(1) Think of the speed that they are traveling at, or it's possibly dimensional travel?

(2) If they are literal horses, that implies to me we are given our own horse and mode of transportation to explore anywhere we may be allowed to go?

(3) If these are literal horses, it implies to me there are animals in Heaven to be enjoyed, and possibly on earth after the recreation? 

Just some pondering...

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7 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

One thing I find curious as well as interesting. A number of places in the Bible, the mode of transportation is white horses. One example that peaks my interest, is the Saints and Jesus coming back to earth on white horse's spoken of in Revelation. 

Think of the implications if these white horses are literal? 

(1) Think of the speed that they are traveling at, or it's possibly dimensional travel?

(2) If they are literal horses, that implies to me we are given our own horse and mode of transportation to explore anywhere we may be allowed to go?

(3) If these are literal horses, it implies to me there are animals in Heaven to be enjoyed, and possibly on earth after the recreation? 

Just some pondering...

Good pondering.   The saints will be on white horses, (in the air), and now I'm realizing that the horse is indicated to be taken away.   And all of God's beautiful animals to be enjoyed is delightful and spelled out in Isaiah 11:6: The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.     And again in Isaiah 65:25 : The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.   So the list begins with  wolves, lambs, leopards, goat kids, calves, lions, cows, serpents, and little children!  

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7 hours ago, Mary8 said:

Good pondering.   The saints will be on white horses, (in the air), and now I'm realizing that the horse is indicated to be taken away.   And all of God's beautiful animals to be enjoyed is delightful and spelled out in Isaiah 11:6: The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.     And again in Isaiah 65:25 : The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.   So the list begins with  wolves, lambs, leopards, goat kids, calves, lions, cows, serpents, and little children!  

Carefully consider those verses and where it says that will take place (Isaiah 11: 6 - 9 and 65: 25). I interpret it to mean it's not all the Earth, just the Lord's Holy Mountain, which I suspect covers Mt. Sinai, Jerusalem or possibly all the land of Israel. I don't see the wording to pertain to all of the Earth. Could be wrong though?

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      This is the same Jesus that Stephen saw, as he stood before the Jewish council (Acts 7:55-56,) and it is the same Jesus that Daniel saw in Daniel 7:13.
      And, He will sit on His glorious throne.
      There is a passage in Joel 3:12 that would cause the audience listening to the speaker that day to take note. Joel 3:12 LITV Let the nations be awakened and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat. For there I will sit to judge all the nations all around.
      This passage in Joel can easily be associated with the judgment we are about to see in Matthew 25. These two points alone do not convince me, as we see Jesus coming in Revelation 19 prior to Him being seated for judgment, and, there is no account of Him sitting upon His throne in Revelation 19.
      To be honest, I have to stretch my mind a bit to see the final judgment. However, if I look at the next verse, the finality suddenly becomes clearer, especially if I have an understanding of Joel 3:12. [Mat 25:32 And before Him shall be gathered all the nations;]
      There is only one glorious throne.
      Is this the same throne that we see in Revelation? We have to look at Revelation 20:11 and see if there is something here that matches.
      Revelation 20:11 NASB Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
      A great white throne
      Our only references to a white throne come from 1 Kings 10:18 and 2Ch 9:17, and they are effectively the same story
      1 Kings 10:18 NASB Moreover, the king made a great throne of ivory and overlaid it with refined gold.
      Ezekiel tells us what he saw, Ezekiel 1:26 NASB Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
      lapis lazuli - Sapphire - Clear heavenly blue. Apparently, the color is insignificant.
      In 1Kings 10:18 it is clear that this is a great throne, and in Daniel 7:9 Daniel sees the throne as being fiery flames.
      Although you don't see this happening in Matthew 25, Revelation 20:7-8 tells us that after the thousand years, Satan is released from his prison and he deceives the nations. Those nations, in turn, surround the city of God in an attempt to kill God and His people. Those gathered are killed in an instant. The next event scripture shows us is the gathering of the nations, or, as Matthew 25 puts it, the dead are brought before this great throne.
      Although my methods of sorting out what I read, and disseminating the false teachings I hear, might be different than what you learn in seminary, they work for me. You also just got the added benefit of some insight into a false teaching that seems to enjoy sending all who approach the throne of judgment, to hell. A serious look at scripture will demonstrate that such a teaching is blatantly false and damaging to our understanding of who God is.
       
       
      iThe Church’s Secret: Biblical Illiteracy in the 21st Century, Hugh Whelchel, writing for the Institute for Faith, Work, and Economics. March 13, 2017. https://tifwe.org/the-churchs-secret-biblical-illiteracy-in-the-21st-century/
      iiBiblical Illiteracy by the Numbers Part 1: The Challenge
      https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2014/october/biblical-illiteracy-by-numbers.html
    • By Sojourner414
      Iran Fires Rockets Into Golan Heights From Syria
      From NY Times:
      (more)
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/world/middleeast/israel-iran-attack.html
    • By Jonathan BeWell
      Dear Lord, in Jesus Christ's name I pray.   Welcome Holy Spirit, embody this nation, government and military. God bless Donald Trump, keep him protected, helped and leading your nation strong and free. God bless Justin Trudeau, bend his will to yours, humble him and teach him what he needs to know of You. Thank you Lord for the peace talks in Korea! This is an appreciated answer to so many pleading prayers! We pray for the same peace and understanding in Cameroon, please have mercy and save its people. Please forgive us of all our sins. Especially excuse evil where we oppose, mock and vilify You. Please Lord, we know not what we do. Bless and revive us Lord, thy kingdom come. Put us through the painful process of cleansing this world, nation, generation and church of backsliding, sleepiness, enemies within, blasphemy, watering down of God's truth, word and law. Prune and throw such chaff into the lake of fire. Have us accept and cherish your free gift of salvation and eternal life immediately through your Son's sacrifice in place of our sin debt. May we all pray for this in our life now! Heal, restore and revive your body of Christ saved to do good works in the Lord. May we be light, salt and disciples to this desperate world. Hallelujah, he is risen, he is risen indeed!   I pray this sincerely for all lost, enemies and loved ones in Jesus Christ's name, amen!   GregoryB
    • By omharris
      I primarily use the NASB, but occasionally I find it deficient; I will insert other translations if they can clarify the context. Those translations will be duly noted.
      Chapter one was an appropriate greeting, but chapter two stands alone and begins to immediately address fears that have come as the result of some false teaching.
      This theme was not a new to Paul as he had written to the Christ-followers in Thessalonica on a previous occasion.
      1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 NASB 13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord, Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
      Considering the years between these two letters, the new members that had been added to the church body, and the addition of some false teachings, the fear has had a chance to creep in. I see the effects of false teachings frequently in the church bodies I have had dealings with, as people espouse things they know so little about; all the while continuing to cloud the issue.
      So let's dissect the passages and see if we can understand all that Paul is trying to say.
      2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 NASB 1) Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2) that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
      “with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,”
      Coming – is the Greek word parousia; a being near, that is, advent (often, return; specifically of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked.) Strong's concordance.
      In the explanation above I see two distinctly different things.
      One being Jehovah's return in the clouds to catch His church away. This catching away is called the harpazo, but it is also known as the advent or return.
      The second possible understanding is this idea of the punishment of Jerusalem or the wicked. This concept pertains to the wrath of God being poured out. One of the keys to understanding the difference between Jesus return for His church and His coming as the conquering Messiah hangs on this phrase - " the day of the Lord.” Using the NASB concordance, the expression shows up in 22 verses. 18 of those references are found in the Old Testament. Since the Tenach is designed for a Jewish audience then the language and references are expressly Jewish; that means that the phrase – the day of the Lord, is almost exclusively about the return of the Messiah.
      Of the four verses left and found in the New Testament, three of them are exclusively about the catching away of the church. This catching away is that time when Jesus comes back in the clouds for His church, and they will be caught up to meet Him in the air. 2Peter 3:10 leans more toward the time of the end, as it tells us that, “the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.” While all of these things are a part of the seven-year period the implications are that this will happen almost all at once when Jesus returns to the earth for the final time. You see, this is one of those areas that are not that black and white.
      So, let's see if the context of the passage answers the question about when this event will happen.
      While I understand that Paul was addressing the body of believers in Thessalonica (a primarily Jewish audience,) these words also apply to us. I do not hear this complaint or question anymore, but I am aware that many do believe that Christ has already returned. If that is the case, what are we doing and why are we wasting our time?
      But Christ has not already returned. How do I know that? Well there are markers, or some might think of them as guideposts along the way, and Paul spells them out.
      2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 NASB 3) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4) who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
      “The apostasy comes first.”
      Since apostasy means a falling away, I ask you, has that happened? Absolutely, and at an exponential rate.
      “and the man of lawlessness is revealed,”
      I want to show you some alternate readings.
      This second selection is from the Complete Jewish Bible, and it translates this passage entirely different from anyone else. Why is this significant? Because even the Muslims have prophecies, and one of them describes such a man;
      2 Thessalonians 2:3 Darby Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because it will not be unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;
      2 Thessalonians 2:3 CJB Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.
      A man who is a descendant of Aaron –
      The priests were to come from the lineage of Aaron. Since we know that the temple will be rebuilt, then practically every preparation would have to be made at this point, for a high priest to be installed. He then would be the one to enter the Holy of Holies and sprinkle the blood of the lamb.
      The Muslim prophecies tell us that this Jew will reject the Torah, pay homage to the Mahdi, and follow him.
      Do you grasp the depth of this action? Many who have esteemed this Jew enough to appoint him as the high priest over the new temple will be deceived, turn from the true God, and follow his actions as they too will bow to the Mahdi in worship. This Mahdi appears to be the Islamic religious leader that will soon be saying peace peace. Most of this takes place 1260 days into the time of wrath upon the earth.
      I am always concerned that people will see my words as unbelievable.
      If, you are a follower of Jesus Christ, then, you are under a mandate to study to show not only, yourself, to be approved by God, but to judge the words being said to you, as to whether they are true or not. You are not doing this type of study to bash people, although I sometimes think that many should shut their mouths, but you are studying these things so that you can know what is right.
      Let me show you an example: I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, regardless of the poor choice of words we traditionally use. Although there is a voluminous amount of those in opposition to this understanding, I did my homework and became even more thoroughly convinced that Jesus is coming back for His church that is waiting for Him, and, He is going to do so before God's wrath is poured out upon the earth.
      Specific reasons why I believe in a pre-wrath rapture.
      Matthew 3:7 NASB But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
      The obvious thing I see here is that Jesus just acknowledged that it is purposeful to flee from the wrath, and, that there is wrath coming.
      Luke 21:23 NASB ... for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
      Here we can see that the intended target is the land and these people. Now the statement, "o this people" is relatively generic and needs some clarity. Luke 21:24 NASB tells us that “they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;”
      It is easy enough to see that a part of this fulfillment comes upon Israel and it's people, the Jews. However, pay attention, and you can see one other group, the Gentiles. The Gentiles and the nations are the same. If you are not a Jew, and you are a follower of Christ, then you have been engrafted into the vine and no longer fall under the category of being a Gentile in God's eyes.
      Those with a veil over their eyes will not get this concept. Since we are “in Christ” then we are part of the church and not subject to this wrath.
      Romans 1:18 NASB For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
      What is evident to me is the terminology, the wrath of God. Pay attention to the words being used and upon whom they are directed. Romans 1:18 can be taken as a somewhat broad spectrum statement.
      An example of this broad spectrum idea – I know a man who came to church for a time and did all the appropriate things. He came down front, cried his eyes out, made sorrowful and repentant statements. Why he even got baptized in a swimming pool as a symbol of this new and changed life he wanted to live. That didn't last long. Does he belong to God and is therefore not going to be subject to this wrath because he is part of the church. I do not know, because any fruit he produces is rotten and stinks before it falls off the tree. This pattern has been going on for years.
      Ephesians 2:3 NASB Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
      The Apostle Paul taught that we were formerly children of wrath, and no longer subject to the “wrath of God.”
      1 Thessalonians 1:10 NASB 10) and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
      1 Thessalonians 1:10 is one of the most specific examples that Paul gave us. Since we are in Christ, Jesus has rescued us from the wrath that is to come.
      1 Thessalonians 5:9 NASB 9) For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
      Many think that we deserve punishment. Well, that might have been true, but as followers of Christ, we are of those who have agreed to and accepted His salvation. You see, you need to have a firm grasp on what Jesus did. I am continually trying to remind people that all sins were forgiven – past, present, and future. Then what are people being punished for? Look at what Colossians 3:5-6 tells us,
      Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6) For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, NASB
      Simply put, you either follow Jesus, or you follow the god of this world, Satan. He will go to an eternal punishment, as will all those who choose to follow him. This punishment, as many want to believe, is not the end-all statement, as God is a merciful God beyond everything else; ask Jonah. And that is why we have the sheep and goats of Matthew 25. Take the time to study that.
      Revelation 6:14-17 NASB 14) The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15) Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16) and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17) for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
      There are three things I want you to see here. Verse 15 gives us a description of some of the people affected by what is happening: kings of the earth; great men; commanders; the rich and strong, and every slave and free man. No one upon the earth is left unscathed by what is coming.
      In verse 16 we see them crying out to be hid from the presence of “Him who sits on the throne, AND from the wrath of the Lamb. This lamb is Jesus Christ. Since I used an example from the Revelation, let me point something out to you. This entire book is a Revelation of Jesus Christ. Even the rich, in this scenario, understood that God played a hand in this, and at the same time, they are acknowledging Jesus. It's all about Jesus.
      And the last thing, although I have already intimated it, is that this wrath is coming from God/Jesus.
      Since we are going to be like Bereans, a people who had enough sense to verify that what Paul was teaching was right, what then do we use as a basis for what is true? Keep in mind, that the Bereans did not have Bibles, they had some scrolls. Those scrolls were so valued that only a limited number of priests could handle them, and so the Torah and Tanakh were read aloud. This idea of scrolls changes the whole idea of Bible study. The Bereans had no New Testament, it was being spoken in their ears by Paul and lived out right in front of them. I, on the other hand, have over thirty translations of the Bible on my computer, and over forty commentaries that I can glean from. I have no excuses.
      The answer to the question is The Word of God. Now, since we know that there are errors across translations, is it wise to merely open the NIV for example, read it, and then say, “this is how that is supposed to be understood!” NO, because, as I said, there are errors. (Do not for a moment think that these errors are on God's part, as God's wisdom has been substantiated by His ability to get His message across plainly to those who choose to pursue this wisdom.)
      So, what am I saying to you? Be open but alert; trust the Holy Spirit to guide you; judge everything against the word of God, and, remove yourself, if you can, from false teachers. They will corrupt you with the simplest of things, such as David conquering Goliath when David was only four foot tall. That is not even close to the terminology used in the descriptions of David. King Saul, who knew David well for David was his ARMOR bearer, called him a youth. But what does that mean? Are these things critical to the story? NO, but if you are willing to build false images about the nature and character of David, what else will a false teacher do with God and His word.
      I can tell you what some will do, for I have experienced this first hand. These false teachers send everyone that comes to the Great White throne judgment to hell. There is nothing about that scenario that definitively points to that happening; these same teachers refuse to see that Matthew 25 and the story of the sheep and the goats, is just another picture of the Great White Throne. In other words, they will twist the gospel so tightly that in time, you will not be able to understand what is true.

       

       

       
    • By omharris
      I introduced a section within my first post in this series, as one of the most unbelievable scenarios you could read. In that section you have Rebekah and Jacob pulling off the deception of a lifetime, as Isaac is tricked into believing that Jacob was Esau merely by strapping a piece of sheepskin on Jacob's arm. I have to ask, have you ever seen sheep? They exceed the hair of man about 100 to one.
      While most would have run for their lives but not Jacob; and, I cannot give you any good reason why? As you see in Genesis 28:6-7, Isaac, after the deception, has instructed Jacob not to take a wife from the daughters of Canaan. After hearing this Jacob leaves toward Haran in order to comply and his mother goes with him. What just happened?
      Watch what Esau does.
      Genesis 28:6-7 NASB Now Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob and sent him away to Paddan-aram to take to himself a wife from there, and that when he blessed him he charged him, saying, "You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan," 7) and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Paddan-aram.
      This is the first time I noticed this aspect of the story. Note how it says, “and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and had gone to Paddan-aram.” When you think about the reality of the situation and how furious Isaac should have been at Rebekah, then it makes all the sense in the world for her to with Jacob. Besides that, she may need to make the introductions and marriage arrangements for this favorite of sons.
      Esau, on the other hand, seeing how irritated his mother became about the women he married, (This is the same mother who deceived Isaac his father, and helped to cheat him out of his rightful inheritance,) went out and found himself a few more.
      Genesis 28:8-9 NASB So Esau saw that the daughters of Canaan displeased his father Isaac; 9) and Esau went to Ishmael, and married, besides the wives that he had, Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael, Abraham's son, the sister of Nebaioth.
      This next section focuses entirely on a dream that Jacob had.
      Indeed, it was a very vivid dream, in a manner similar to the dream that Abram had, it was as close to reality as you can come. You have to wonder how much understanding Jacob had about God, or where he got that understanding. The only thing we see is Isaac praying to the Lord in chapter 25. Isaac, being the son of Abraham, I can understand how and where he learned of the Lord, but the apparent influence on Jacob is not seen.
      Genesis 25:21-23 NASB Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren; and the LORD answered him and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22) But the children struggled together within her; and she said, "If it is so, why then am I this way?" So she went to inquire of the LORD. 23) The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb; And two peoples will be separated from your body; And one people shall be stronger than the other; And the older shall serve the younger."
      Jacob's Dream - Genesis 28:10-22
      But first Jacob has to kneel before his father, apparently at his father's demand.
      Genesis 28:1 NASB So Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and charged him, and said to him, "You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.
      This is the second time Jacob has been blessed, however, Isaac is well aware of the deceitful methods that were used on him. Without going any farther, I already see a prime example of the nature and character of God, as Isaac overlooks the “sin” and bestows a purposeful blessing upon Jacob.
      Blessed is the Hebrew word bāraḵ: A verb meaning to bless, kneel, salute, or greet. The verb derives from the noun knee and perhaps suggests the bending of the knee in blessing.
      Would we expect to see Isaac kneeling before Jacob at this point?
      Not a chance, so it is Jacob, this time with intention, kneeling before his father.
      Do you think it is possible that Isaac could bring some punishment upon this son?
      No, and again, this is an example of God's grace, as we too, caught in our sins, deserved punishment, but what happened? The Son Jesus took all punishment on our behalf.
      I am well aware that I have no key character, in this scenario, that takes the punishment for Jacob. What I do see, is Jacob suffering abuse, at not only the hand of Laban but his own sons when we get to them.
      Pay attention to what Isaac tells Jacob.
      Perspective: The flood has come and gone, and, with it, should have been the giants and the evil and violence that were associated not just with them, but people in general. And, secondly, this has taken place before Moses and prior to the law.
      Is that what happened?
      Not exactly, for men still had the right to choose how they would live, and the giants returned. Genesis 6:4 tells us that afterward, they showed up again. After what? The flood.
      “The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:4 NASB
      Two pieces of evidence for giants after the flood comes from Numbers 13:33 and 2Samuel 21:16, both of which speak of giants still permeating the land. Canaan was one of those places and we learn of it when Israel sent 12 men to spy out the Land of Canaan.
      “You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.”
      Do a word search and the first place Canaan shows up is in Genesis 9.
      Genesis 9:18-27 NASB Now the sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Japheth; and Ham was the father of Canaan. 19) These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated. 20) Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard. 21) He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent. 22) Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23) But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father's nakedness. 24) When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. 25) So he said, "Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers." 26) He also said, "Blessed be the LORD, The God of Shem; And let Canaan be his servant. 27) "May God enlarge Japheth, And let him dwell in the tents of Shem; And let Canaan be his servant."
      Notice how Canaan is pointed out as the son of Ham; this is not a favorable distinction.
      Genesis 28:2 NASB "Arise, go to Paddan-aram, to the house of Bethuel your mother's father; and from there take to yourself a wife from the daughters of Laban your mother's brother.
      The town of Bethuel gained it's origins in a man, as was the case with every city.
      Genesis 22:20-23 NASB Now it came about after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, "Behold, Milcah also has borne children to your brother Nahor: 21) Uz his firstborn and Buz his brother and Kemuel the father of Aram 22) and Chesed and Hazo and Pildash and Jidlaph and Bethuel." 23) Bethuel became the father of Rebekah; these eight Milcah bore to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
      So here is your ancestry moment, It was told, Abraham:
      Milcah also has borne children to your brother Nahor
      Uz his firstborn and Buz his brother and Kemuel the father of Aram 22) and Chesed and Hazo and Pildash and Jidlaph and Bethuel."
      Kemuel produces a son Aram. Note the similarities to Paddan-aram!
      The son to be born to Nahor is Bethuel.
      Bethuel became the father of Rebekah
      Rebekah is the wife of Isaac, the mother of Esau and Jacob. This also means that Bethuel became the father of Laban.
      Jacob, still kneeling before his father Isaac, receives all these instructions and blessings; as though what he stole was not enough.
      Genesis 28:3-5 NASB "May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples. 4) "May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham." 5) Then Isaac sent Jacob away, and he went to Paddan-aram to Laban, son of Bethuel the Aramean, the brother of Rebekah, the mother of Jacob and Esau.
      “ May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.”
      “May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham.”
      What were the blessings of Abraham?
      Genesis 12:1-3 NASB Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 2) And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; 3) And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
      Genesis 17:6-8 NASB "I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you. 7) "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8) "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
        I will make you a great nation
      I will bless you
      and make your name great
      I will bless those that bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse.
      In you, all the families of the earth will be blessed.
      I will make you exceedingly fruitful
      and I will make nations of you
      kings will come forth from you
      I will establish my covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you … for an everlasting covenant.
      Be a God to you and to your descendants.
      And, I will give you and your descendants … all the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession.
      So, tell me, is this what you say to someone who has just deceived you? And yet, this is exactly what Isaac just did. “May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham.”
      Genesis 28:10-11 NASB Then Jacob departed from Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11) He came to a certain place and spent the night there because the sun had set; and he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.
      Haran, isn't that the place where Abram was and God told him to go to a land that He would show him? Yes, it is. But it is also the place where so many things will take place, and now Jacob is going there to find himself a wife. Fortunately, Jacob has his mommy with him to make the introductions; although we are not told that, it works for the moment.
      Genesis 11:26-31 NASB Terah lived seventy years, and became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. 27) Now these are the records of the generations of Terah. Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran; and Haran became the father of Lot. 28) Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his birth, in Ur of the Chaldeans. 29) Abram and Nahor took wives for themselves. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife was Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah and Iscah. 30) Sarai was barren; she had no child. 31) Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife; and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans in order to enter the land of Canaan; and they went as far as Haran, and settled there.
      Note this: “Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife; and they went out together from Ur of the Chaldeans in order to enter the land of Canaan; and they went as far as Haran, and settled there.
      It seems God has His hands in everything, doesn't it?
      “He came to a certain place and spent the night there because the sun had set;”
      Genesis 28:19 NASB He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz.
      “And he took one of the stones of the place and put it under his head, and lay down in that place.”
      Genesis 28:18-22 NASB So Jacob rose early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on its top. 19) He called the name of that place Bethel; however, previously the name of the city had been Luz. 20) Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will keep me on this journey that I take, and will give me food to eat and garments to wear, 21) and I return to my father's house in safety, then the LORD will be my God. 22) "This stone, which I have set up as a pillar, will be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
      God's house? This statement is immensely significant, and so is this, “and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You.”
      Without any motivation of “law,” Jacob has made a commitment to tithe.
       
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