Some encouraging Scriptures about the rapture

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Brilliant observation! Very good. In fact, the famines are church age events. I have seen several in my short lifetime - all in Africa- that 1/4 of the earth these riders were limited to.

The 2nd Seal is to take peace from the earth, and to make people slay each other.  No, peace on earth, not in over 4000 years.  So this is yet future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Marv, you really need to study this verse until you get it:

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. They were given authority and power over a fourth part of the earth (Amp)   there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth  (ASV)   A quarter of the earth was put into their power  (Phillips)   They all basically say the same thing: notice carefully what it does NOT say: that 1/4 of the earth would be killed. What it DOES say is that God would LIMIT them in their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the earth. In other words, the Red Horse and rider to start wars ONLY in this 1/4th of the earth.  The black horse and rider could not bring famine in any other part of the world: ONLY in this 1/4th.   The purpose of the Red horse and rider, the Black horse and rider, and the Pale horse and rider was to STOP the advance of the Gospel by starting wars and causing famines and pestilences such as the Black Plague that hit Europe twice - each time killing almost 1/3 of the population.   Note carefully, these riders have nothing to do with the wars and famines during the church age in other parts of the world. Here have certainly been wars, famines and pestilences in Asia, but they have nothing to do with these riders - nor have these riders had anything to do with wars, famines, and pestilences in other parts of the world. The gospel BEGAN in Jerusalem so we can be sure this 1/4 of the world would be centered in Jerusalem. That would take in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa - the very place where wars and famines have been endless, and where pestilences have hit over and over again.   Finally, don't forget the purpose of the seals is to seal the book. Simple.

You need to re read it.  They were given power over 1/4th of the earth to kill.......by these methods...

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The famine of the 3rd Seal precedes the 1/3rd of the earth burning and all the grass being burned of the 1st Trumpet. Two different events.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Hi MM,

That is what I said, also. I just used the same illustration for both. So we agree there.

Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

You need to re read it.  They were given power over 1/4th of the earth to kill.......by these methods...

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv, their power was limited to one fourth of the earth: it does not say how many they would kill. Read it again.  The black plague in Europe killed around 1/3 both times it hit: 1300's and 1600's. It also hit Europe and the Middle East in the 500's - again killing perhaps 2/3's of the people.  This plague left the Byzantine empire and areas around it extremely weak - just in time for the invasion of Islam. This is the pale horse and rider at work.  Over time, far more than 1/4 of the people killed. 

My point, in case you missed it: this verse does NOT tell how many people killed: what it does tell is WHERE these three riders were allowed to kill.

Notice the difference:

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.   This would make a good basic English question on an exam.   Is it any wonder why people disagree so much in these threads?  It is truth: people have reading problems.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MM,

That is what I said, also. I just used the same illustration for both. So we agree there.

Marilyn.

Wonder of wonders: AGREEMENT on these threads!

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The 2nd Seal is to take peace from the earth, and to make people slay each other.  No, peace on earth, not in over 4000 years.  So this is yet future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

How strange an observation:  "No, peace on earth, not in over 4000 years."  This is church history, not future!

Take a look here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

You will find hardly a 5 year period in church history where there was not war going on somewhere in Europe.

Wikipedia has a similar chart for Africa.

Why then would you imagine then that the 2nd seal is future?

 

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi MM,

That is what I said, also. I just used the same illustration for both. So we agree there.

Marilyn.

I do not know if we agree or not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

40 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How strange an observation:  "No, peace on earth, not in over 4000 years."  This is church history, not future!

Take a look here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

You will find hardly a 5 year period in church history where there was not war going on somewhere in Europe.

Wikipedia has a similar chart for Africa.

Why then would you imagine then that the 2nd seal is future?

 

So when was this peace taken from earth?  Show me the date of this Peace being removed?  World wide Peace, not short term peace in a particular local. 

You need to show me Scripture where the Holy Spirit was given the promise to wear a crown (stephanos), Who gave this crown to him?  Not there.  You need to show me Scripture where the Holy Spirit even rides on a White Horse?  Not there.  You need to show me in Scripture where the Holy Spirit has a physical body?  Not there.   Yet, Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God.  (Col 1:15).  For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form (Col 2:9).

You need to re-evaluate your position.  Those of the Church do not receive their crowns (rewards) until the Bema Seat of Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[iamlamad]

Just now, Montana Marv said:

So when was this peace taken from earth?  Show me the date of this Peace being removed?  World wide Peace, not short term peace in a particular local. 

You need to show me Scripture where the Holy Spirit was given the promise to wear a crown (stephanos), Who gave this crown to him?  Not there.  You need to show me Scripture where the Holy Spirit even rides on a White Horse?  Not there.  You need to show me in Scripture where the Holy Spirit has a physical body?  Not there.   Yet, Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God.  (Col 1:15).  For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form (Col 2:9).

You need to re-evaluate your position.  Those of the Church do not receive their crowns (rewards) until the Bema Seat of Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Did you forget about Zech 1:11

11 And they reported to the angel of the Lord who was standing among the myrtle trees, “We have gone throughout the earth and found the whole world at rest and in peace.” Look at it this way: when seal 2 was opened, it gave the Dragon LEGAL RIGHT to create wars. This does not add or take away from wars in the past or peace in the past: it only gives Satan the legal right to start MORE wars - but ONLY in the 1/4 of the earth allowed to them. When seal 3 was opened, that gave the devil legal right to bring famine - but ONLY in that 1/4th of the earth. When the 4th seal was opened, that gave the devil legal right to bring pestilences and death: John does not give us a  number or a percentage of how many will die - he only tells us these three, the Red, the Black and the Pale will be limited in their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the earth. It seems their authority will continue as long as the church age continues. Sorry, the first seal is a SYMBOL not a reality.  The gospel is not being spread by a rider on a white horse. That is symbolic. This victor's crown is symbolic that the church will be victorious. Sorry, the Holy Spirit does not ride a horse - But Jesus will. What brought on such silly questions? These first seal is symbolic of the CHURCH (the Body of Christ on earth in every generation) taking the gospel to the nations. That began when Jesus gave the command: "GO!"  However, after He said "go," then He said "wait," so they waited for the anointing, and then they went out. I am not wearing a crown...are you? In this we agree: crowns will be given out after we receive our resurrection body.  This is the difference between a SYMBOL and reality.

[Spock]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:06 AM, iamlamad said:

Marv, you really need to study this verse until you get it:

8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. They were given authority and power over a fourth part of the earth (Amp)   there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth  (ASV)   A quarter of the earth was put into their power  (Phillips)   They all basically say the same thing: notice carefully what it does NOT say: that 1/4 of the earth would be killed. What it DOES say is that God would LIMIT them in their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the earth. In other words, the Red Horse and rider to start wars ONLY in this 1/4th of the earth.  The black horse and rider could not bring famine in any other part of the world: ONLY in this 1/4th.   The purpose of the Red horse and rider, the Black horse and rider, and the Pale horse and rider was to STOP the advance of the Gospel by starting wars and causing famines and pestilences such as the Black Plague that hit Europe twice - each time killing almost 1/3 of the population.   Note carefully, these riders have nothing to do with the wars and famines during the church age in other parts of the world. Here have certainly been wars, famines and pestilences in Asia, but they have nothing to do with these riders - nor have these riders had anything to do with wars, famines, and pestilences in other parts of the world. The gospel BEGAN in Jerusalem so we can be sure this 1/4 of the world would be centered in Jerusalem. That would take in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa - the very place where wars and famines have been endless, and where pestilences have hit over and over again.   Finally, don't forget the purpose of the seals is to seal the book. Simple.

Hey LAmad,

I know you are very confident believing your interpretation of scripture and the doctrines you thus hold onto are 100% right, but let me remind you of two truths:

1. No one not named Jesus has been given ALL truth and understands everything

2. Your belief that the 4 horsemen have already ridden is very subjective and can’t be unequivocally proven. You are merely INFERRING that into the scripture. Scripture does not explicitly come out and say that has happened as you said.