Some encouraging Scriptures about the rapture

[iamlamad]

3 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hey LAmad,

I know you are very confident believing your interpretation of scripture and the doctrines you thus hold onto are 100% right, but let me remind you of two truths:

1. No one not named Jesus has been given ALL truth and understands everything

2. Your belief that the 4 horsemen have already ridden is very subjective and can’t be unequivocally proven. You are merely INFERRING that into the scripture. Scripture does not explicitly come out and say that has happened as you said. 

I simply disagree: I think good exegesis proves the first 5 seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended.

Marv does prove one point: different people read scripture differently.

Am I "inferring" when Jesus Christ, the head of the church TOLD me? I don't think so. Neither can I "infer" that He might had spoken to me. No, I KNOW He spoke to me.  I can still remember the words. I understand - He did not speak to you - so you are not sure of anything. 

I can only suggest you look at the words Jesus spoke to me and see if they agree with the written word. But you will have to lay aside preconceptions. I asked someone: can you see a 1% possibility this really was Jesus speaking. He did not answer. Do you remember?

He asked me why He was not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father in chapter 4. NO ONE should have trouble believing Jesus could say that: it is absolute fact written in the word: John did NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.

Next He asked me why "no man was found worthy" in that first search? Again it is absolute fact: John wrote "no man was found worthy."

I wonder then why you can't believe these words came from Jesus. He is the Author; of course He knows why ever word was chosen. He chose each word.  Now that I heard from the Author HIS meaning when He caused John to write; I can easily see that the written word and His audible words are the same. 

Where you are struggling is when Jesus showed me the message BEHIND the words: that it was a vision of the past.  Perhaps you should read it again and answer this question: can you see a 1% possibility that Jesus was portraying a vision of the past? Can you see a 1% chance that the REASON John did not immediately see Jesus at the right hand of the Father is because Jesus wanted to show the throne room of the past - a time while Christ was still on the earth?

Can you see a 1% possibility that the reason John wrote "no man was found worthy" is simply because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead? 

Think about it.

[JustPassingThru]

31 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hey LAmad,

Mornin' bro, you speak French, ...got it!   

Lord bless

[Last Daze]

16 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I simply disagree: I think good exegesis proves the first 5 seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended.

Without linking them to specific events they essentially become meaningless.  There has been war, famine, and martyrdom long before the ascension of Jesus.

[Montana Marv]

18 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Did you forget about Zech 1:11

11 And they reported to the angel of the Lord who was standing among the myrtle trees, “We have gone throughout the earth and found the whole world at rest and in peace.”

When, give me a date of reference, this is a vision, When did this take place with world wide peace on earth?  Was this peace during the 2nd year of Darius.

Now Israel has been scattered for almost 1900 plus years and now has a land of their own.  When during this time has there been peace on earth?

30 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Look at it this way: when seal 2 was opened, it gave the Dragon LEGAL RIGHT to create wars. This does not add or take away from wars in the past or peace in the past: it only gives Satan the legal right to start MORE wars - but ONLY in the 1/4 of the earth allowed to them. When seal 3 was opened, that gave the devil legal right to bring famine - but ONLY in that 1/4th of the earth. When the 4th seal was opened, that gave the devil legal right to bring pestilences and death: John does not give us a  number or a percentage of how many will die - he only tells us these three, the Red, the Black and the Pale will be limited in their theater of operation to only 1/4 of the earth. It seems their authority will continue as long as the church age continues.

This Legal Right is no where to be found in Scripture.   Satan, The man who made the world a desert..... and would not let his captives go (Isa 14:17)

John says 1/4th die.  He was given power over 1/4th of earth to kill.  It does not say he was given power to save some of the 1/4th.  He was given power to kill them.

37 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, the first seal is a SYMBOL not a reality.  The gospel is not being spread by a rider on a white horse. That is symbolic. This victor's crown is symbolic that the church will be victorious. Sorry, the Holy Spirit does not ride a horse - But Jesus will.

If the 1st Seal is not reality, what is it.  The spreading of the Gospel is a reality.  The victors crown is given at the Bema Seat of Christ.  The whole Bride.

If the 1st Seal is symbolic, are the next 3 riders also symbolic.  Who gives this rider of the 1st Seal his crown?  You have said that the rider on this 1st horse is the spreading of the Gospel, now you are saying something different.

45 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What brought on such silly questions? These first seal is symbolic of the CHURCH (the Body of Christ on earth in every generation) taking the gospel to the nations. That began when Jesus gave the command: "GO!"  However, after He said "go," then He said "wait," so they waited for the anointing, and then they went out.

We as the Church do not ride white horses proclaiming the Gospel.  Look the rider on this white horse, he held a bow, then he was given a crown, then he went out to conquer.  In that symbolic order.  You have everything is reverse order.  So these individuals who waited for the anointing already had their crowns before they went out.

 

52 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I am not wearing a crown...are you? In this we agree: crowns will be given out after we receive our resurrection body.  This is the difference between a SYMBOL and reality.

With the 1st Seal the conquering happen after the crown was received, not before.   This is reality.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

19 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Without linking them to specific events they essentially become meaningless.  There has been war, famine, and martyrdom long before the ascension of Jesus.

AS with after the ascension.  Israel was under the control of Rome, both before and after.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Spock]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I simply disagree: I think good exegesis proves the first 5 seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended.

Marv does prove one point: different people read scripture differently.

Am I "inferring" when Jesus Christ, the head of the church TOLD me? I don't think so. Neither can I "infer" that He might had spoken to me. No, I KNOW He spoke to me.  I can still remember the words. I understand - He did not speak to you - so you are not sure of anything. 

I can only suggest you look at the words Jesus spoke to me and see if they agree with the written word. But you will have to lay aside preconceptions. I asked someone: can you see a 1% possibility this really was Jesus speaking. He did not answer. Do you remember?

He asked me why He was not immediately seen at the right hand of the Father in chapter 4. NO ONE should have trouble believing Jesus could say that: it is absolute fact written in the word: John did NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the Father.

Next He asked me why "no man was found worthy" in that first search? Again it is absolute fact: John wrote "no man was found worthy."

I wonder then why you can't believe these words came from Jesus. He is the Author; of course He knows why ever word was chosen. He chose each word.  Now that I heard from the Author HIS meaning when He caused John to write; I can easily see that the written word and His audible words are the same. 

Where you are struggling is when Jesus showed me the message BEHIND the words: that it was a vision of the past.  Perhaps you should read it again and answer this question: can you see a 1% possibility that Jesus was portraying a vision of the past? Can you see a 1% chance that the REASON John did not immediately see Jesus at the right hand of the Father is because Jesus wanted to show the throne room of the past - a time while Christ was still on the earth?

Can you see a 1% possibility that the reason John wrote "no man was found worthy" is simply because of TIMING: Jesus had not yet risen from the dead? 

Think about it.

No disrespect to you but do you know how many people here at Worthy have said “Jesus spoke these words to me?”

i believe Rev Man said something similar too, and he promotes a seals released in the final 3.5 years instead of already released. 

I admit, I am biased in that I don’t believe God is audibly speaking to us today. He speaks to us through his written word  and enlightens us through His Holy Spirit within us. 

I test every  utterance made by man through the word and I don’t see in the word that it is conclusive the  4 horsemen have already ridden. I’m sorry.....that’s my comfort zone. I would say the same to anyone....not just you.  As you know, so what on what I think? You don’t need my validation....I get that. 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

No disrespect to you but do you know how many people here at Worthy have said “Jesus spoke these words to me?”

i believe Rev Man said something similar too, and he promotes a seals released in the final 3.5 years instead of already released. 

I admit, I am biased in that I don’t believe God is audibly speaking to us today. He speaks to us through his written word  and enlightens us through His Holy Spirit within us. 

I test every  utterance made by man through the word and I don’t see in the word that it is conclusive the  4 horsemen have already ridden. I’m sorry.....that’s my comfort zone. I would say the same to anyone....not just you.  As you know, so what on what I think? You don’t need my validation....I get that. 

No one spoke more pure truth than Jesus.  He was right, and He knew He was right.  He never felt obligated to force His teachings on those who disagreed with Him.  We should emulate Him.  Those who seek truth will find it through the Holy Spirit according to the Word, and it is He who reveals the things to come.  The insistence of man does not accomplish revelation from God.  We should speak our piece, let the Holy Spirit do His job, and leave it at that.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Last Daze

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Spock said:

No disrespect to you but do you know how many people here at Worthy have said “Jesus spoke these words to me?”

i believe Rev Man said something similar too, and he promotes a seals released in the final 3.5 years instead of already released. 

I admit, I am biased in that I don’t believe God is audibly speaking to us today. He speaks to us through his written word  and enlightens us through His Holy Spirit within us. 

I test every  utterance made by man through the word and I don’t see in the word that it is conclusive the  4 horsemen have already ridden. I’m sorry.....that’s my comfort zone. I would say the same to anyone....not just you.  As you know, so what on what I think? You don’t need my validation....I get that. 

I have never stated God speaks to me audibly, why would He have to ? He's a Spirit and my inward man is also a Spirit. Knowing how to hear the Spirit is another thing entirely, but it's not a verbal voice per se though God can of course do that. God indeed speaks to us in the Spiritual realm, if anyone doesn't understand how to hear this small still voice I think their walk with Jesus is not as strong as it should be, we can't defeat the evils of this world without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, so I would venture that is why we have a lot of "DEFEATED TYPE Christians" in the world today.

Satan is brilliant of course, so what is the best way for him to try and thwart the word of God ? Have people who don't hear from God say they do, when in fact Satan himself is feeding them misinformation, thus if he can get 49 people to sow confusion, the 50th man of God will never have his Word of the Lord God heard because the masses are in a state of constant confusion and don't know what to believe, it's called the Jezebel Spirit. I know when something is of Satan within 5 minutes, even if the person he's using doesn't know it. 

Asking God to teach us an unknown is the KEY to being taught by God. Too many people take an understanding from men and run with it, like Joel Richardson, I don't care if you have written books, that doesn't impress me and I told him in a chat session that he was in error on his Islamic Angle, because he is. As are those with the RCC Angle. Satan is busy spreading untruths, 24/7/365, it's his best weapon against the truth of God. Sow confusion. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

No disrespect to you but do you know how many people here at Worthy have said “Jesus spoke these words to me?”

i believe Rev Man said something similar too, and he promotes a seals released in the final 3.5 years instead of already released. 

I admit, I am biased in that I don’t believe God is audibly speaking to us today. He speaks to us through his written word  and enlightens us through His Holy Spirit within us. 

I test every  utterance made by man through the word and I don’t see in the word that it is conclusive the  4 horsemen have already ridden. I’m sorry.....that’s my comfort zone. I would say the same to anyone....not just you.  As you know, so what on what I think? You don’t need my validation....I get that. 

I doubt if many say it that way: that they heard a voice and words.  Many people hear from their own spirit and imagine it is God. Spock, there are many "voices" one can hear. Few hear the real voice of God. 

What do you do with the verse that says "my sheep know my voice?" What do you do with what Jesus said "Upon this rock" of revelation or revealed knowledge "I will build my church." Spock, the truth is, most of the church has bypassed Acts 1 and 2 and tried to live a "normal" Christian live without ever praying in the Spirit. What they all miss is that praying in the spirit is the doorway to revealed knowledge. Praying in tongues is just not fitting (according to many) for an "up town" church, so they bypass it.  The truth is, God is still speaking today to His church; but few have learned how to listen to His voice.

What about the 1%? Why did you bypass that? Are you saying you don't even think there is a 1% chance?

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

When, give me a date of reference, this is a vision, When did this take place with world wide peace on earth?  Was this peace during the 2nd year of Darius.

Now Israel has been scattered for almost 1900 plus years and now has a land of their own.  When during this time has there been peace on earth?

This Legal Right is no where to be found in Scripture.   Satan, The man who made the world a desert..... and would not let his captives go (Isa 14:17)

John says 1/4th die.  He was given power over 1/4th of earth to kill.  It does not say he was given power to save some of the 1/4th.  He was given power to kill them.

If the 1st Seal is not reality, what is it.  The spreading of the Gospel is a reality.  The victors crown is given at the Bema Seat of Christ.  The whole Bride.

If the 1st Seal is symbolic, are the next 3 riders also symbolic.  Who gives this rider of the 1st Seal his crown?  You have said that the rider on this 1st horse is the spreading of the Gospel, now you are saying something different.

We as the Church do not ride white horses proclaiming the Gospel.  Look the rider on this white horse, he held a bow, then he was given a crown, then he went out to conquer.  In that symbolic order.  You have everything is reverse order.  So these individuals who waited for the anointing already had their crowns before they went out.

 

With the 1st Seal the conquering happen after the crown was received, not before.   This is reality.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The timing is over course in Zechariah's time. He did not tell us how long that peace lasted.

Are you still disagreeing on the 4th?   I suggest you look up that verse in every commentary you can find. Get some other people's take on it.  Suppose I give you 1/4th of a pie. It is yours to do with what you want. Does that necessarily mean you will eat it? Maybe it is strawberry rubarb and you don't like it - so throw it away. The fact still remains that 1/4th of a pie was given you to.

In the same way, a teaching might tell her students that they can out outside for recess after a flood, but they MUST stay in the dry area only. She has limited their play ground to only the dry area. It is what God has done. The sword won't kill everyone. The famine won't kill everyone. the rich people will still be able to buy food.  Neither will "death" or pestilence kill all. All this verse says is, they are LIMITED in where they can do their thing.

Why is it some find such difficulty understanding a simply passage? How could they possibly understand more difficult ones? It does NOT say they were given power over a 4th of the earth to kill 100% of all people in that 1/4th. You are reading that theory into what is written.

Agreed: thank God! Agreed! All four horsemen are symbolic. A war is fought with armies, not a single man on a horse. A famine is usually brought on by a lack of water or rainfall, not by a rider on a black horse.  We know things like the black plague come from bacteria, not from a rider on a horse. These are all symbolic.

It is symbolic! The church WILL BE victorious. God knew that from the beginning.  Note that the overcoming and or conquering is ongoing.