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Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

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Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

I have put together a conversation between two people A & B, to explain what I believe about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

 

A. I`ve been studying what the Lord says about the Tribulation to come and God`s Wrath.

B.  Oh, I thought we`ve always had `tribulation.` You know that word `thlipsis` is a Greek word meaning pressure, affliction, anguish, persecution and tribulation.

A.  Thanks for that bit of info. And yes `thlipsis,` pressure affliction etc has been throughout the centuries. However I have found out that this particular `thlipsis,` pressure, is special. Let me read what Jesus said -

`For there will be great tribulation, (pressure, affliction, anguish, persecution) , such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

B . Wow, that sounds very bad, not a good place to be. So it will be the most difficult time that hasn`t been before and wont happen again. Mmmmm

So is it caused by the so called Climate change we hear about, or just natural acceleration of man damaging the world?

A.  You might think that but actually God says that it is His vengeance to punish the people of the earth. The Greek word is `orge,` and means anger, vengeance, wrath with the connotations of punishment. Listen to this -

`..For behold, the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;...` (Isa. 26: 21)

B. So you are saying that it is actually God punishing the people of the world for their sins. I`m glad that there will come punishment, but oh, for those who are on the earth, such a terrible time.

A. We can rest assured though that God`s hand of mercy will be still outstretched for those who repent of their sins and turn to Him.

B. How merciful of God.

So let me get this straight. There is coming on the world The Tribulation, with a capital `T` as it has never been like this or ever again, and the reason is - that God is punishing the people of the world for their wickedness.

A. That`s right. That is what I believe God`s word says.

The Tribulation is unique and the reason is God`s punishment, His wrath.

B. Thanks `A` for this very interesting and informative discussion.

A. Thanks `B` for sharing also.

 

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27 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

 You might think that but actually God says that it is His vengeance to punish the people of the earth. The Greek word is `orge,` and means anger, vengeance, wrath with the connotations of punishment. Listen to this -

`..For behold, the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;...` (Isa. 26: 21)

Conjecture that that is a reference to the time of great tribulation.

29 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

The Tribulation is unique and the reason is God`s punishment, His wrath.

No, the reason is because the saints are given into the hand of the man of sin for 42 months and a multitude beyond number are martyred because of the mark and the image.  It has nothing to do with God's wrath.

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13 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Conjecture that that is a reference to the time of great tribulation.

No, the reason is because the saints are given into the hand of the man of sin for 42 months and a multitude beyond number are martyred because of the mark and the image.  It has nothing to do with God's wrath.

Mmm Last Daze,

and your scripture for that?

BTW I will write out more of Isa. 26 so we can see the context bro.

Marilyn.

 

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15 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Mmm Last Daze,

and your scripture for that?

BTW I will write out more of Isa. 26 so we can see the context bro.

Marilyn.

 

First, a definition of when the time of great tribulation begins and when it ends, according to Jesus.

  • Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand).  For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  Matthew 24:15,21

The time of great tribulation follows the AoD.  If it was God's wrath, I think He would have called it that.

  • But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.  Matthew 24:29-30a

Jesus describes the opening of the sixth seal in that passage.  Immediately after the time of great tribulation, the sixth seal is opened.  So the great tribulation begins just after the AoD is set up and ends when the sixth seal is opened.  Now look at what else is said at the sixth seal:

  • And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"  Revelation 6:16

Did you catch that?  The time of God's wrath doesn't begin until after the sixth seal is opened which is immediately after the time of great tribulation.  It is therefore impossible for the great tribulation to be God's wrath.

As for the man of sin's persecution:

  • He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.   Daniel 7:25
  • It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  Revelation 13:7
  • And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  Revelation 13:15
  • After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  Revelation 7:9,14

Those four verses sum up the time of great tribulation which comes from the man of sin.

 

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8 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Revelation 6:12-17 .... this is the beginning of the day of the Lord, not the ending

Not according to scripture.

  • For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.  1 Thessalonians 5:2

Jesus tells us exactly when He is coming like a thief. No speculating.  No ambiguity.

  • “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.  Revelation 16:15-16

The day of the Lord, when Jesus comes like a thief, occurs after the armies are gathered for Armageddon.  Not before.

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  • “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”  And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.  Revelation 16:15-16

 

The Lord is speaking here and gives the full picture from His pre-tribulation action to immortalize His own just before the 70th week decreed for Israel to the end of the same at Armageddon  

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On ‎13‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:05 PM, Last Daze said:

First, a definition of when the time of great tribulation begins and when it ends, according to Jesus.

  • Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand).  For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.  Matthew 24:15,21

The time of great tribulation follows the AoD.  If it was God's wrath, I think He would have called it that.

  • But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn.  Matthew 24:29-30a

Jesus describes the opening of the sixth seal in that passage.  Immediately after the time of great tribulation, the sixth seal is opened.  So the great tribulation begins just after the AoD is set up and ends when the sixth seal is opened.  Now look at what else is said at the sixth seal:

  • And they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"  Revelation 6:16

Did you catch that?  The time of God's wrath doesn't begin until after the sixth seal is opened which is immediately after the time of great tribulation.  It is therefore impossible for the great tribulation to be God's wrath.

As for the man of sin's persecution:

  • He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.   Daniel 7:25
  • It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.  Revelation 13:7
  • And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.  Revelation 13:15
  • After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  Revelation 7:9,14

Those four verses sum up the time of great tribulation which comes from the man of sin.

 

Hi Last Daze,

Sorry to not get back to you, but had a short stink in the hospital. I was on prep for an op and it made me sick and dehydrated. I spent 7 hours on a drip yesterday and now slowly recovering.

So I think you see the Day of God`s wrath as one day. And that is what I believe also. However from the Gk, ``hemera` we see that it does indeed mean one day, but also can be several days, and a period of time defined by the context. So let`s look at God`s word together.

1. Day - One day. Rev 6: 17 & Rev.19: 11 - 21 for details) The Lord`s coming in power and great glory with His angelic army. (Matt. 25: 31 Luke 9: 26  1 Thess. 1: 7)

2. Day - A period of time. (Rev. 15)

`Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous; seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them THE WRATH OF GOD IS COMPLETE.` (Rev. 15: 1)

`...in them is finished the wrath of God` ASV

`..with them the wrath of God is ended.` TCNT

`...in them the wrath of God has reached its climax.` Wey

`...by which the vengeance of God is finally achieved.` Knox

`...with them God`s wrath (indignation) is completely expressed - reaches its climax and is ended.` Amp

 

Marilyn. 

 

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2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Sorry to not get back to you, but had a short stink in the hospital. I was on prep for an op and it made me sick and dehydrated. I spent 7 hours on a drip yesterday and now slowly recovering.

So I think you see the Day of God`s wrath as one day. And that is what I believe also. However from the Gk, ``hemera` we see that it does indeed mean one day, but also can be several days, and a period of time defined by the context. So let`s look at God`s word together.

1. Day - One day. Rev 6: 17 & Rev.19: 11 - 21 for details) The Lord`s coming in power and great glory with His angelic army. (Matt. 25: 31 Luke 9: 26  1 Thess. 1: 7)

2. Day - A period of time. (Rev. 15)

`Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous; seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them THE WRATH OF GOD IS COMPLETE.` (Rev. 15: 1)

`...in them is finished the wrath of God` ASV

`..with them the wrath of God is ended.` TCNT

`...in them the wrath of God has reached its climax.` Wey

`...by which the vengeance of God is finally achieved.` Knox

`...with them God`s wrath (indignation) is completely expressed - reaches its climax and is ended.` Amp

 

Marilyn. 

 

Hi Marilyn,

No rush.  I'm glad you're recovering.

That's not really how I see it.  I see Rev 6:16 as referring to the "time" of God's wrath.  I believe the "time" of God's wrath is in what follows the sixth seal, which is the seven plagues of the seventh seal, more specifically, the seven bowls. 

  • Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.  Revelation 15:7

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5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Hi Marilyn,

No rush.  I'm glad you're recovering.

That's not really how I see it.  I see Rev 6:16 as referring to the "time" of God's wrath.  I believe the "time" of God's wrath is in what follows the sixth seal, which is the seven plagues of the seventh seal, more specifically, the seven bowls. 

  • Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.  Revelation 15:7

Thanks Last Daze,

Now I really appreciate discussing this with you for I really haven`t talked with anyone who believes this view before in great detail. So I`m looking to the Lord who by His Holy Spirit will bring us clarification and more understanding in this. Always ready to listen.

So...can you please help me to understand your view. This is how I tend to hear you at the moment.

.....I.................................................I.............I....>

          The Tribulation                                         God`s Wrath

1. Can you add any more details for me please.

2. Also what signifies the end of the tribulation.

3. What signifies the end of God`s wrath.

 

regards, Marilyn.

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