Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Last Daze,

Let`s look in detail at your view.

Now you say that the 7 seals bring forth the 7trumpets.

So first you believe that there is the great trib, with everyone, kings, great men, rich, commanders, mighty men, every slave and every free man` hiding in caves and in the rocks of the mountains, crying out for them to hide them from the wrath of God. At this time we see that there is great darkness over the earth and a great earthquake. (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

So then, (following your view) we get to the 7th seal and the trumpets coming forth. Now we`ve just seen that everyone on planet earth is hiding from the wrath of God. Now we see that there are many days, `1,260 days` where 2/3rds of the earth is fine and people seem to be going about their business as normal. The Global Leader has arisen and is controlling the people through deception.

So did all the people of the earth who were previously hiding, see that nothing happened after the great earthquake and great darkness and think, well, `false alarm?`  And as 2/3rds of the earth was still fine then `we are ok?`

What is your take on that scenario?

BTW It`s nice just having a quiet chat here, ay.

Marilyn.

 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Just answered my own question as where I see you have the great multitude coming out of the great trib, You have them after your great trib, which you believe is before the trib. Sounds a bit double Dutch, but I think you understand that I am trying to see from your perspective.

I would like now to have a look at this from a different view. Will get back to you, bro.

Marilyn. 

If I can just clarify one part real quick.  The great multitude are those who are martyred during a specific time of the 1260 day tribulation.  That specific time is known as a time of great tribulation.  The very first part of the tribulation is known as the great tribulation.  It describes an intensity of tribulation, not a separate time thereof.

[Last Daze]

39 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

Let`s look in detail at your view.

Now you say that the 7 seals bring forth the 7trumpets.

BTW It`s nice just having a quiet chat here, ay.

Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn,

Yes, it is nice to have a pleasant chat with you here.  I need to make some clarifications to that scenario though. 

I think that it is the 7th seal specifically that brings forth the 7 plagues (which consist of both trumpets and bowls).

45 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So first you believe that there is the great trib, with everyone, kings, great men, rich, commanders, mighty men, every slave and every free man` hiding in caves and in the rocks of the mountains, crying out for them to hide them from the wrath of God. At this time we see that there is great darkness over the earth and a great earthquake. (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

I believe the sixth seal (Rev 6:12-17) is after the time of great tribulation.  The time of great tribulation coincides with the fifth seal.

49 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So then, (following your view) we get to the 7th seal and the trumpets coming forth. Now we`ve just seen that everyone on planet earth is hiding from the wrath of God. Now we see that there are many days, `1,260 days` where 2/3rds of the earth is fine and people seem to be going about their business as normal. The Global Leader has arisen and is controlling the people through deception.

So did all the people of the earth who were previously hiding, see that nothing happened after the great earthquake and great darkness and think, well, `false alarm?`  And as 2/3rds of the earth was still fine then `we are ok?`

When the sixth seal is opened and everyone hides, etc. there are fewer than 1260 days of tribulation left.  There are 1260 - the length of the GT (an unknown length of time).  I wouldn't say that people think that things are "fine" and its "business as usual" because the effects of the plagues are beginning and continue to get worse.

The Global Leader rose to power during the time of wars and rumors of war (seals 2, 3, 4) having uprooted 3 of the 10 leaders by supernatural power.  The signs and wonders he performs deceives those who dwell on the earth . . . then comes the AoD . . .  then the mark and the image . . .then the fifth seal GT.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Hi Marilyn,

Yes, it is nice to have a pleasant chat with you here.  I need to make some clarifications to that scenario though. 

I think that it is the 7th seal specifically that brings forth the 7 plagues (which consist of both trumpets and bowls).

I believe the sixth seal (Rev 6:12-17) is after the time of great tribulation.  The time of great tribulation coincides with the fifth seal.

When the sixth seal is opened and everyone hides, etc. there are fewer than 1260 days of tribulation left.  There are 1260 - the length of the GT (an unknown length of time).  I wouldn't say that people think that things are "fine" and its "business as usual" because the effects of the plagues are beginning and continue to get worse.

The Global Leader rose to power during the time of wars and rumors of war (seals 2, 3, 4) having uprooted 3 of the 10 leaders by supernatural power.  The signs and wonders he performs deceives those who dwell on the earth . . . then comes the AoD . . .  then the mark and the image . . .then the fifth seal GT.

So Last Daze,

All the people of the earth are hiding in the caves and rocks in mountains so very, very fearful of the Lord`s wrath, and you say that then they come out of their hiding, (why?) and I say they would have to go about the business of life - eating, sleeping, buying and selling - just look at the great cities of the earth with their finance, & money making.  But to think they are in utter terror (6th seal) and then come out seemingly thinking - `false alarm!!!!` Stretches my reality a bit too far there bro.

Please can you explain this? Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Last Daze,

More thoughts -

For everyone, all people, kings, commanders, mighty men, great men, rich, slave, free, ALL PEOPLE, have SEEN something and experienced an earth shattering earthquake that brought down the cities of the world, and the sky receded as a scroll, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place....and thus they hide and cry in terror, hide us. It is NOT a few scared people, or a sect, or one nation but the absolute whole world!!!!!

They are not going to crawl out of their hiding places saying `well we, the whole world, were wrong and this devastation of the whole world is climate change!!!!  No way, the whole earth has moved and there is great darkness, the cities of the world have collapsed, mountains and islands are moved and to top it all off the actual sky where they look is receding. Now why are the heavens OPENING....

`Then I saw heaven OPENED, and behold, a white horse......` `then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.` (Rev. 19: 11,  Luke 21: 27)

 Marilyn.

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So Last Daze,

All the people of the earth are hiding in the caves and rocks in mountains so very, very fearful of the Lord`s wrath, and you say that then they come out of their hiding, (why?) and I say they would have to go about the business of life - eating, sleeping, buying and selling - just look at the great cities of the earth with their finance, & money making.  But to think they are in utter terror (6th seal) and then come out seemingly thinking - `false alarm!!!!` Stretches my reality a bit too far there bro.

Please can you explain this? Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

I doubt I can explain it to your satisfaction.  I think your mind is already made up.  If there's one thing I've learned over the years, its that people believe whatever they want to believe.  I can be as equally critical of your eschatology as you can be of mine.  But, what does that profit?  What matters is our obedience to the will of God, being doers of the word and not hearers only.  I know you agree with that.

We have no frame of reference for the things that will take place in those days.  We read about wars on the scale never before seen, about great signs and wonders and all the deception of wickedness but we really don't understand the impact of those things or how they will become manifested.  That's why we need spiritual discernment.  Spiritual discernment is not the product of our intellect (eschatology) but the product of our obedience to the teachings of Jesus.

You asked me to explain my views and I have.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Hi Marilyn,

I doubt I can explain it to your satisfaction.  I think your mind is already made up.  If there's one thing I've learned over the years, its that people believe whatever they want to believe.  I can be as equally critical of your eschatology as you can be of mine.  But, what does that profit?  What matters is our obedience to the will of God, being doers of the word and not hearers only.  I know you agree with that.

We have no frame of reference for the things that will take place in those days.  We read about wars on the scale never before seen, about great signs and wonders and all the deception of wickedness but we really don't understand the impact of those things or how they will become manifested.  That's why we need spiritual discernment.  Spiritual discernment is not the product of our intellect (eschatology) but the product of our obedience to the teachings of Jesus.

You asked me to explain my views and I have.

Hi Last Daze,

I`m always open for someone to show from scripture with back up from other scriptures, what they are thinking. So please feel free to show me where I am not seeing correctly from scripture. That is what we are here for, ay to help each other, get clarity and insight by the Holy Spirit.

Yes I definitely agree that we should be doers of the word and not just hearers, that is why I try to -

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.......(for) ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.` (2 Tim. 2: 15,  & 3: 16)

I do believe we have a very detailed frame of reference from God`s word. He has written the details for us to know Him firstly and to know His purposes. That is an intimate sharing of hearts there. The Holy Spirit, as we know has been sent by our Lord to lead us into all truth of Christ, His character and His purposes. Thus we continue to share and listen and discuss so that the Holy Spirit can show us not only clarity of truth but where our obstacles are in our thinking. And I`ve had many of those along the way.

Spiritual discernment is by the Holy Spirit, as we obey, as you said and also what we receive from the Holy Spirit as regards, the Lord`s purposes. These purposes include where our destiny is and others also, and why he is doing such and such. The study of end times is the greatest muddle for as we well know there are as many views as people, yet through it all the Holy Spirit will bring to those who carefully and humbly study His word, the clarity of these and future times.

Be blessed, bro, Marilyn.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Last Daze,

I`m always open for someone to show from scripture with back up from other scriptures, what they are thinking. So please feel free to show me where I am not seeing correctly from scripture. That is what we are here for, ay to help each other, get clarity and insight by the Holy Spirit.

Yes I definitely agree that we should be doers of the word and not just hearers, that is why I try to -

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.......(for) ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.` (2 Tim. 2: 15,  & 3: 16)

I do believe we have a very detailed frame of reference from God`s word. He has written the details for us to know Him firstly and to know His purposes. That is an intimate sharing of hearts there. The Holy Spirit, as we know has been sent by our Lord to lead us into all truth of Christ, His character and His purposes. Thus we continue to share and listen and discuss so that the Holy Spirit can show us not only clarity of truth but where our obstacles are in our thinking. And I`ve had many of those along the way.

Spiritual discernment is by the Holy Spirit, as we obey, as you said and also what we receive from the Holy Spirit as regards, the Lord`s purposes. These purposes include where our destiny is and others also, and why he is doing such and such. The study of end times is the greatest muddle for as we well know there are as many views as people, yet through it all the Holy Spirit will bring to those who carefully and humbly study His word, the clarity of these and future times.

Be blessed, bro, Marilyn.

I've had exchanges with dozens of people on this site and others and the common thread through nearly all of them is the perception that everyone thinks their view is the right one.  Everyone claims that theirs is in the proper context, rightly divided, hermeneutically sound, properly exegeted, from the tribe of the Bereans, etc. etc.

Concerning the time of His return, Jesus never exhorted us to "figure it all out."  He said to be on the alert, to be ready.  I'm going heed that advice.

Fare well, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

49 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I've had exchanges with dozens of people on this site and others and the common thread through nearly all of them is the perception that everyone thinks their view is the right one.  Everyone claims that theirs is in the proper context, rightly divided, hermeneutically sound, properly exegeted, from the tribe of the Bereans, etc. etc.

Concerning the time of His return, Jesus never exhorted us to "figure it all out."  He said to be on the alert, to be ready.  I'm going heed that advice.

Fare well, Marilyn.

 

Hi Last Daze,

Yes and thank you for the interesting discussion bro.

regards, and all the best, Marilyn. 

[Dennis1209]

On 12/12/2017 at 6:35 PM, Marilyn C said:

Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

I have put together a conversation between two people A & B, to explain what I believe about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

 

A. I`ve been studying what the Lord says about the Tribulation to come and God`s Wrath.

B.  Oh, I thought we`ve always had `tribulation.` You know that word `thlipsis` is a Greek word meaning pressure, affliction, anguish, persecution and tribulation.

A.  Thanks for that bit of info. And yes `thlipsis,` pressure affliction etc has been throughout the centuries. However I have found out that this particular `thlipsis,` pressure, is special. Let me read what Jesus said -

`For there will be great tribulation, (pressure, affliction, anguish, persecution) , such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.` (Matt. 24: 21)

B . Wow, that sounds very bad, not a good place to be. So it will be the most difficult time that hasn`t been before and wont happen again. Mmmmm

So is it caused by the so called Climate change we hear about, or just natural acceleration of man damaging the world?

A.  You might think that but actually God says that it is His vengeance to punish the people of the earth. The Greek word is `orge,` and means anger, vengeance, wrath with the connotations of punishment. Listen to this -

`..For behold, the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;...` (Isa. 26: 21)

B. So you are saying that it is actually God punishing the people of the world for their sins. I`m glad that there will come punishment, but oh, for those who are on the earth, such a terrible time.

A. We can rest assured though that God`s hand of mercy will be still outstretched for those who repent of their sins and turn to Him.

B. How merciful of God.

So let me get this straight. There is coming on the world The Tribulation, with a capital `T` as it has never been like this or ever again, and the reason is - that God is punishing the people of the world for their wickedness.

A. That`s right. That is what I believe God`s word says.

The Tribulation is unique and the reason is God`s punishment, His wrath.

B. Thanks `A` for this very interesting and informative discussion.

A. Thanks `B` for sharing also.

 

Hi Ya Marilyn C, long time no see (pun intended)!

Well, I'm not going to disagree with Mr. A or Mr. B, assuming they're men. But, my studies indicate to me there's maybe a little more to the tribulation. Such as; not only is the tribulation to punish the sinful gentile Christ rejecting world. But I see the main purpose and the central focus of the Bible after Jesus, as addressing Israel to repentance and calling on the name of their Messiah they rejected to save them from extermination. To put an end to the age of Grace and start the Kingdom of God, after the last person on earth is saved and up we go. 

I can also see a clear three part distinction and division of the seven year tribulation. The wrath of man, the wrath of Satan, and the final three year period as the wrath of God. 

I'd be interested in hearing what Mr. C has to say about all this